Is it time for the trusty DJ wheel to jog on?
When we wrote in the introduction to our four-deck DJ controllers buyer’s guide that we had only included controllers with jogwheels, reader Jayson Mongan took issue: “Nowadays, with being able to run four decks and having a sync button, and being able to save, load and loop cue points, is there really a need for jogwheels, considering how much real estate they take up and how little they actually provide?” he asked.
Long-time digital DJing evangelist Ritchie Hawtin, in a NAMM show round-up on his blog, summed up the raft of new controllers he saw there in a similar vein:
“I’ll be honest, I went to NAMM hoping to have epiphany and meet the perfect controller, alas, I found myself in a sea of mediocrity and finally the only controller that really stood out from the pack was the 4midiloop device.” he said.
I went to NAMM hoping to have an epiphany and meet the perfect controller…”
“It is probably not for everyone as it doesn’t have the huge jogwheels (which I hate) which seem to waste so much real estate on everyone else’s controllers.
“But it offers a clear and calculated Traktor inspired layout of knobs, switches, and faders… for not only two, but four decks!”
So if jogwheels struggle to offer much control over ever-more-complex DJ software, and with some of the biggest DJs are starting to question their very existence, today we’re asking: Is it time to reinvent the (jog)wheel?
The case for and against jogwheels
What Jayson and Ritchie don’t say is that there are things you can do with jogwheels that you can’t replicate with knobs and buttons – like scratching, for instance. Good jogwheels “feel” nice to use, offering tactile control over the music, which is a big part of what DJing has been about up to this point, after all.
And also, shouldn’t DJing be about building on the past, not throwing it out and starting anew? If someone reinvented the car to not need a steering wheel, would we actually want to drive it still, or is the act of holding and turning that wheel too ingrained in us as what driving actually is?
The Faderfox 4midiloop: controls every conceivable function in Traktor... but doesn't come with jogwheels.
On the other hand, there ain’t nothing physically on those moving discs any more! They’re just a way of getting to the music and controlling it. What Jayson and Ritchie are saying is that they’re a relic, an unnecessary hangover from the past. And they’re getting in the way.
The thing is, goes the argument, maybe jogwheels are hanging on in there simply because change hurts.
Pioneer’s new DDJ-T1 and DDJ-S1 DJ controllers, for instance, which have huge jogwheels, are predicted to do well precisely because they are more familiar to mainstream CD DJs than any other digital DJ controllers to date, meaning CD DJs are expected to be able to make the switch to them relatively painlessly.
The best jogwheel DJ controllers do an amazing job of squeezing the whole two-deck DJ experience into a small box – the Vestax VCI-300, for instance, just feels great to DJ with… as long as you’re happy to do it the old way. Once you start wanting to add in loops, samples and effects, solutions like this creak and eventually break… they’re designed, after all, for the old way of DJing.
It’s telling that Native Instruments, with its Kontrol S4, moved the jogwheels to the back of the unit…
It’s telling that Native Instruments, with its Kontrol S4, moved the jogwheels to the back of the unit and shrunk them in favour of bigger, more prominent knobs and buttons. This first official controller for Traktor Pro (probably the most complicated and versatile of the “traditional” DJ programs) may be clearing the ground for Native Instruments to release a DJ controller without jogwheels at all.
(Hell, they already have – the X1. While this was designed to sit alongside Traktor Scratch and control vinyl, innovative DJs such as Domas have instead chosen to hook a couple of these up at the heart of knob-and-button four-deck systems.)
DJing without jogwheels is nothing new
When I first switched to digital DJing after 15 years of using vinyl, it was on the very first Hercules DJ controller. I’d been asked to review it for a magazine, but after a while I realised it wasn’t fun at all to use. So I ended up creating a custom keyboard mapping for Virtual DJ and using the laptop keyboard instead, with which I ended up DJing in pro clubs for years.
The Vestax TR-1: One of the first unashamedly non-jogwheel DJ controllers for Traktor.
Back then, people like me were plugging any Midi devices they could into DJ software and mapping controls just to see what was possible – but not necessarily ever having actual jogwheels. Indeed, it’s only recently that jogwheels have got good enough to be fun to use for digital DJing anyway.
And dedicated DJ gear without jogwheels isn’t new either. Controllers like the Vestax TR-1, while never really taking off, have existed for a while, and the critical reaction to the long-awaited-but-finally-here 4midiloop from Faderfox shows that done well, such controllers can offer unprecedented levels of control over the exciting new features of DJ software that allow forward-thinking jocks to push the boundaries while letting autosync take care of the beatmatching.
The Ableton Live effect
Of course, the stunning popularity of Ableton Live (stunning considering it is not meant for DJing, and is not by any means an easy program to start using at all, never mind DJing with in public) has brought with it its own spread of controllers like the Akai APC20 and APC40, the Paul Van Dyk-favoured Vestax VCM-600, and the Novation Launchpad (which can be paired with something like the Novation Nocturn for a complete Ableton DJ rig). Such set-ups are becoming more popular in DJ boxes – and noe of the above feature jogwheels.
The boundaries between traditional DJ software and more modern producer/DJ programs are blurring.
And with Serato’s The Bridge mashing DJ software up with Ableton Live (currently for the Serato Scratch DVS system but coming soon for ITCH controllers), and technical know-how such as how to sync Ableton and Traktor on the same machine becoming more widespread, the boundaries between traditional DJ software and more modern producer/DJ programs are blurring.
How long before a killer mutation of one of these programs really nails the new way of DJing, and inspires its own raft of controllers to make proper use of all of its features? When this happens, you can bet that those controllers won’t have a jogwheel in sight.
A bit of perspective…
The Novation Launchpad: Paired with a Novation Nocturn, it provides a radical way of DJing. Pic: The Coolist
Of course, it’s all about music at the end of the day. The basic impulse of DJing is to play stuff you like to people in the hope they’ll like it too.
You can do that on everything from the smallest DJ set-up in the world to a custom rig as weird and wonderful as you like (5 NanoKontrols and 4 LPD8s is the set-up that Jayson who inspired this thread uses, for instance). Whatever floats your boat.
However, predicting the future helps us to assess what we’re doing right now, and the jogwheel issue is one that’s right at the heart of digital DJing. So we’ll ask again – is Ritchie Hawtin right? Have jogwheels had their day? Will you still be using a controller with jogwheels in five years’ time?
Let us know your thoughts in the comments below.
Now go to:
Your Must-See Guide To All The New DJ Gear From NAMM 2011
Interview: The KJs, On Digital DJing, Dropbox & Dodgy Band Names
“Digital DJing Saved Us From The DJ Booth!” – AndrewAndrew Interview
Look! How To Digital DJ Fast - Video Course
From Digital DJ Tips, four hours of online video to get you from beginner to first gig in just four weeks. Join the 1000s of DJs who've already benefited from this training. Click here!
Learn to DJ Free - email course plus bonus PDF book
Sign up for our weekly email course for beginners now...
Trouble choosing a controller? Get your free 162-page guide!
Grab "DJ Controllers: The Ultimate Buyer's Guide" at our Facebook Page.
Come and meet other DJs just like you!
The long-awaited Digital DJ Tips forums are now open. Come and chat!
Tags: beatmatching, jogwheels
I think it’s quite obvious that the jogwheel/disc paradigm is fast becoming irrelevant in mixing. On screen, waveforms in a straight line are normal GUI elements and it would make sense to translate that into tactile somehow. Maybe a touch strip instead? There’s really no reason it has to be a round bit of plastic. Personally, I use two X1s and a four channel mixer. But I play techno.
[ link ]Each deck in Traktor is roughly the size of my phone’s touchscreen. based on that, surely you could have something about that size (maybe a little bigger) where you can touch the waveform to manipulate it into a scratch.
[ link ]Hell, NI could add a touch strip to the X1s (one on each side) so you can scratch that way. As you say, happydan, there’s no reason it has to be a round strip of plastic.
I wrote this a couple of days ago on “6 Predictions For The DJing World in 2011″
I’d like to see in the coming year
** an iPhone app midi controller that allows for
* track selection/cuing
* mixer eqs faders
* fx
* connect to laptop thru wifi
** controllers with
* touch displays
* wireless connection
* no decks just track waveforms and loops on one side
* fx on the other
* just eight knobs for eqs for two channels
Why can only apple redefine an industry? The technology is here why not use it? What do you guys think?
Today:
Talking about jog wheels. Lets face fact that the technology is out there in fact most is a few years old and we have the capability to make any equipment we want. There seems to be a serious lack of coherent direction in all the new digital products that are out there.
Going down to the basics people have forgotten what really needs to be built into the equipment and what is just emulating other old turntables or old effects.
I think there are four basic tasks thats a dj needs to do
1 Play 2 tracks at once
2 Manipulate the pitch and tempo and volume
3 Sample (which is effectivley a new track even a one second stab)
4 Fx
ok 5 Eq
Vinylists may want tactility and analog sound (warmth)
there is no reason that the software today cannot produce identical digital sound with all the “noise” thats inherent in vinyls
tactility – when you open a door you use a door handle and there must be thousands of shapes and sizes of those, there are even electric eyes that open the door for your. controlling playback wich is what a turntabelist does is not exclusive to a vinyl disc, rather any engineer or software programmer can produce a system that emulates/ mimics sctratching “to a t” or even improves it. All you are doing is playing back sound at different speeds in complex pattens for different spaces of time (latency issues are not uresolvable rather as of yet, insufficiently resolved.
I have 3 ideas for vinyl emulation
1 A touch screen (ipad)
2 something like a mouse pad with indication of the stylis or indication of the beats
3 A fader like knob
Cheers
[ link ]Btw I love pioneer, I wish they make equipment that lead the industry and doesnt copy anyone else.
[ link ]http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb419/simboy2000/ce20dc94.jpg
[ link ]USB scratchpad for turntablists
You put your hand down and the track stops playing or you can cue ahead of time
then you pull back and the red line is where the track stopped playing or a cue point, preferably a kick. And when you push ur hand forward the track plays at your speed and the kick should sound.
If you let go your hand the track plays and the red line- essentially a visual- cue runs ahead at the speed of a turntable 78/45 rpm. Pull back on the the vinyl to get the red marker back . If you let go a few seconds it either resets or you have to pull back enough so it returns as if rewinding a vinyl to cue point.
I’d the drawing is crap I drew it on my iPhone
cheers
[ link ]Well, TouchOSC when combined with OSCulator have been around for a few years… you might want to check those out… DJTT reviewed them both a while ago. There is a Rumor that Native Instruments will release iTraktor, but I have seen nor heard anything to confirm or deny this rumor… dJay currently works on the iPad and it’s not horrible, but it lacks a lot of features a DJ might ask for.
Regarding your assessment of Vinyl: I think the reason Turntablists like their Turntables so much is that there’s a direct, accurate and immediate feedback through touching the records whereas interacting with a touch interface on a computer seems just a slight bit slow (and sometimes sloppy).
[ link ]One of my favorite small sets only consists of a Korg nanokontrol and an Akai LPD 8 – all you need for browsing, controlling Loops, FX and output sound even for 4 decks. Took me quite some time to get the mapping together, but it works and is fun!
[ link ]Sometimes these toylooking devices are accompanied by 2 EKS XP 5, which have jogwheels, but they are hardly used except for browsing tree and list (which they are perfect for!), and I mapped the long pitch faders as volume faders.
Hawtin is right – the new way of DJing won`t necessarily need the wheels, they are just one way of artistic means of expression.
I always hated scratching, simply because most people don’t know how to use it correctly. So most of the time the flow of the music would be destroyed.
I think there’s a real issue that discussion of DJ tech online – and perhaps as a result R&D of new products – is dominated by the very vocal turntablist/controlerist community. Because the stuff they do looks sexy and is easy to market, perhaps.
But for the gigging club DJ, for whom being able to put together a tightly mixed, creative, crowd moving set is more important than a visual performance, jogwheels ARE taking up valuable real estate. I’m desperate for a compact controller that has no jogs, and instead concentrates on giving a good (and tactile! ) mixer experience. Until then I’ll stick to using an external mixer – but setting up in the middle of a club night is still such a stressful chore.
Working the levels and EQ is just an important – and hard to learn and get right – skill as manipulating the tunes, and we shouldn’t lose sight of how much of a key part of DJing it really is.
(I like the look of the 4midiloop, but boy is it pricey and way too big to be practical.)
[ link ]What do you think of the Vestax that’s in the piece?
[ link ]I’ve not used it sadly Phil – what’s your thoughts?
Looks like could do the job, what I’m after though is something that has proper faders and EQs for 4 channels without any sort of ‘shifting.
Hmm..maybe I should try and get my hands on one. Right now (like I think I mentioned to you before) the little Faderfoxes have my eye. Heard good things from pros like Surgeon and Alan Fitzpatrick by asking them on twitter – both gave glowing feedback…
[ link ]The Vestax is solidly built, but a bit out of date for the newer Traktor versions. You would probably still need an X1. And it’s only two decks.
[ link ]Cheers Dan…I’ll bear that it mind and will take a look. Current set up is an X1 and a 4 channel mixer, but would like to simplify things slightly.
[ link ]I don’t buy this argument that you need jogs for scratching. If you’re serious about scratching, you’re an DVS or analog guy anyways, not a user of controllers. If you just scratch a little here and there as a gimmick, you could just as well play with effects instead (or do “juggle mode” style scratching as recently proposed by Ean Golden).
Turns out I’m currently in the market for a new controller (already sold my VCI and LPD8) and I’m seriously considering the S4. Ironic, isn’t it? But where are the serious all-in-one contenders without jogwheels in that price range? I mean, I’d love to get a 4midiloop but it’s EUR 1300 plus tax and ships without audio interface and software.
[ link ]I just use the jogwheel to navigate a song, by looking at the beats.
[ link ]Twitch… it’s only $500 U.S. and it does pretty much everything you’d want it to do.
[ link ]Well.. I’m not an old school DJ, I didn’t start on vinyl or CDJs, didn’t go through any of that at all but there is one thing I can say with certainty: I am not giving away my jogwheels.
For me, DJing is all about spinning things that are round and jogs represent it as a straight forward symbol.. Maybe I am not right but for me DJing without jogs is not DJing (I am thinking of me here, I still respect people who DJ without jogs).
[ link ]That’s exactly how I THOUGHT I felt… till I remembered happily doing it with a laptop keyboard for all that time when I first got into digital! Funny old game.
[ link ]Interesting, it was the reverse for me: thought I was okay with just the keyboard and all that jazz, then got them wheelz and I was as happy as a pig in…mud. Well I guess it’s all good, as long as it makes us happy, productive and not on drugs
[ link ]I find it very interesting that some of you don’t consider it djing if there are no jogwheels. Little hypocritical don’t you think when considering the controversy of digital djing.
[ link ]I’m a fan of choice.
I like how we have so many different ways to approach DJing now. You can go 100% old school on analog vinyl, or go CDs with CDJs, or CDs with a rack-mounted system, or use timecode with a DVS, or midi with a DVS, or use a DAW with or without midi.
I can understand if Hawtin isn’t into jogwheels, but I also think DJs and such shouldn’t be looking for an all-in-one controller that controls their software of choice perfectly. One thing I like about doing digital is I can expand or contract my setup and needs based on other controllers I bring in. So I’ll use the Xponent as my primary controller, then use the MPD24 for effects, and even the Midi-Fighter for the sampler. I even bought a used X-Session Pro that I can bring in in case I need more.
I guess to me, one controller for it all is restraining. Suddenly you decide you don’t like Traktor anymore and want to go VDJ. Now you’re complaining how this expensive controller you bought doesn’t have all the buttons, knobs, etc. you need for it. Even those new Pioneer controllers I think are cool…but it seems silly to have one for Serato and one for Traktor. They should have just made one controller and let users pick whatever software they want to use it with.
As for jogwheels, I remember when rack-mounted CD players were big. Many DJs complained they wanted jogwheels because it’s easier to search and cue up a tune with it. Now we can claim how software has cue points and we have the mouse/trackpad for these, but I use my jogwheels a lot to cue an backtrack. Maybe it’s because I’m clinging to how I did things with vinyl. Even when I don’t use a sync I let go of tracks in the way I did with vinyl. It just works for me.
If there’s a market for non-jogwheel controllers, then they should go for it. However, I notice the bigger complaint many DJs make with new controllers are how the wheels are getting smaller.
Choice is the goal…and where we should be.
[ link ]All good points – and it is exciting to be able to customise your setup with lots of choice. But the point of trying to fine one good all-in controller – for me at least – is simple portability and ease of set up in the booth.
[ link ]You bought an Xponent so I assume you have Torq. I’d really like to see a Traktor vs. Torq review.
[ link ]To also help put it in perspective, jogs on CD players aren’t really all that old a phenomenon in the first place – let alone jogs that actually emulate scratching…
The industry standard CD deck in the 90’s was a Denon DN2000F. No jogs on that pup, just little + and – buttons beside the pitch fader. Actually, there were almost no features on those units either, yet I put together some of my most memorable sets on them. The original model recued so fast you could actually use it as a sampler… Ah, memories… When later models started to add jogs it had nothing to do with scratching, and weren’t even particularly useful for pitch bending – they were solely a way to move around a track more quickly than fast forward and rewind buttons…
Anyway, my point is, they actually haven’t been around in current form for all that long, so the idea of removing them shouldn’t be sacrilege – plus, getting rid of jogs on a controller doesn’t automatically relegate you to the league of sync’ers – there are still options for everyone.
[ link ]Hello, I’m a 4midiloop user with 2 technics sl 1200mkII, DVS + internal mixing= total control of the sound ( scratching, efx, 4 eq from xone 92 & recording internally) no need to use external mixer anymore. This is a perfect mix between old school feeling (vinyl turntables) and digital technologies !!! The price from a 4midiloop is high but its Swiss made
[ link ]For the last two years, whenever I do bar gigs I only use an Oxygen 8, Traktor, and route it to a two channel mixer. I mapped everything I need to the keys including effects, loops, nudging which replaces the jogwheel, and cues. When I spin Techno though I use vinyl which is all jogwheel and no flash.
[ link ]well jogs have their niche, just like controllers and 2 vs 4 decks… now i have a question which haven’t answered, some years ago everyone used external mixer because internal eq had a bad sound, now internal mixer sounds equal or better than an external mixer??
[ link ]The new midi controllers are controlling software that’s on a laptop but often come with a built in sound cards or can attach to an external sound card
[ link ]I don’t beatmatch manually and I don’t scratch: but I do use jogwheels for A: setting cue points on tracks I haven’t pre-prepared, B: adjusting phasing slightly, and C: FX control.
That said, jogwheels could be replaced with a pair of touch-strips, provided you had fine and coarse transport control with them.
[ link ]Adjusting phase is the most important use of jogwheels for me.
[ link ]Agreed – it’s one of the points we made in 6 Reasons Why All DJs Should Learn To Beatmatch By Ear
[ link ]The technology is getting better and better but sometimes I think we forget that DJing is about playing the right music at the right time and mixing it well and some great djs didnt even mix!
[ link ]You have to sometimes ask how many effects do we need,how many loops and samples are we going to use.how much altering the track is too much,at what point does it become annoying? at what point are we just doing something for the sake of it.
Take turntabalists in battle mode great to watch for 10 minutes but would the general public want 5 hours of it.
I use traktor and a kontrol x1 its great there is so much you can do but sometimes I just go back to the cdjs for part of the night because sometimes it just feels better!
I still have to see a video clip of a dj playing to a mainstream crowd doing anything much different than you could do 10 years ago which the crowd identified and went with!
Do we really want to be doing the dj equivelent of the self indulgent guitar solo.
Quite often less is more
I agree with Tony. And I market myself as such. Scratching is a great art form that I don’t think will fade anytime soon. Especially with the existence of jog wheels. Scratching in the next track or using effects to transition in/out of songs is what I like to do on occasion. I do this by choice and sometimes necessity. But I do not do that to every song. I don’t do events to dominate the crowd, show, or event; but to provide a variety of music that keeps the dance floor filled and play requests that the dancers want to dance to.
[ link ]theres no reason they couldnt just have one huge surface that controls the track aswell as the mixing using the same tech as in touch phones you could do the same drag you do to scroll pages on a iphone to drag the track back and forward cant just be on an iphone though its too small a surface maybe an ipad but i think you would need static buttons to switch between mixer and turntables
[ link ]I cant imagine myself DJing without a JogWheel.
[ link ]We can see the turntable paradigm from some points of view.
First we have the circular infinite backward/forward time factor movement and its pitch tone transform we call (baby) “scratch”. It can’t be performed by touchpot/softpot/ribbon because we need “relative” control which offers infinite circular interaction. Almost we need something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLyXozuJ5p8
But then we have second interaction: haptic control (we called vinyl feeling touch). Touch surfaces still hasn’t this dimension. The “regular” turntablist (as a instrumentalist) will need the force platter vector under vinyl too. The same for rubber or arcade buttons in finger drumming paradigm vs ipad solutions (even when these cheat velocity with accelerometers). Of course we have the same issue in the xfade hand. If we change the regular xfade for another “sensor” some techniques (crab, two click flare…) which involve thumbs may be reformulated.
Third we have eye-hand skill technique. Humans learn by try and mistake. Turntablist and mixing are the interiorization/integration of the above points into human “how to” and “how I understand it”. Again we must know deep what are we doing to extrapolize into new artforms.
At last nobody who tries to force the artform can talk about formless. I’m agree in some aspects with Richie, Ean, Moldover, Babu… but I’m very dissapointing in some others.
To me “labels” like Turntablism or Controllerism have lost the roots. If Turntablism is like Guitarrism with Turntable, Controllerism is Turntablism with controllers (and WITHOUT turntables like Moldover statment)… then I’m nothing of these. If you need a label as a mindjail (these secure place where lives your afraid self-concept ego) then call me TOOLtablist because any TOOL is my ablism… but if you are a Free Creative Human using any tool (or not) to express yourself honestly in freedom to enjoy… then, forget about names.
“I am not teaching you anything. I just help you to explore yourself.”
[ link ]-Bruce Lee.
Sorry about html shit, I was not sure about digitaldjtips will supported it.
-m!
[ link ]I’ve never DJ’ed with jogwheels, cds, or vinyl. Although I’ve only been DJing since 2008, I have recently decided that I need to upgrade my setup to include them (jogwheels). The Reloop Jockey (III?) is what I have my eye on, along with upgrading my software from Torq 1.5 to 2.0.. I’ve always just used an X-Session Pro, Korg nanoKontrol and Conectiv. I even had a club manager TELL ME that I NEEDED to learn how to DJ on turntables. Needless to say, jogwheels aren’t necessary, but I’d still like to have them in my setup for tactile track manipulation and the well placed sample scratch.
[ link ][quote]Needless to say, jogwheels aren’t necessary, but I’d still like to have them in my setup for tactile track manipulation and the well placed sample scratch.[/quote]
For mixing useful but not necessary, for scratching still the best option.
[ link ]Actually, I think there’s some convenience in jogwheels that won’t be replaced that easily. The convenience is not in size, nor the easily replacable features of such a thing, but is related to the fact, that there are no analog buttons in the midi controlled world. The more/the faster you spin the jogwheel, the bigger the impact on the actual sound will be, but if you press a button… It’s just 0, or 1, you know? And because of that, they’re actually faster to “use on the fly”, when something goes wrong with syncing things or whatever. I hope I made a point.
[ link ]You’ve just said exactly what I’ve been thinking since I read this article Igor.
I can’t ever see me creating perfect beatgrids for all my music, so quick tweaks to the phase will always be something I need to do.
Jog wheels are better than +/- buttons for this because they are velocity sensitive.
Only last night I loaded up a track which just wouldn’t grid up for some reason – manual beat matching with the aid of a jog wheel and dedicated pitch slider was quick and easy.
I guess for djs who focus on music where automatic beatgrids tend to fit well most of the time (techno), jogs aren’t that relevant. If you find you need to tweak the phase a fair bit (I do) jogs are the best control interface anyone has come up with yet imho.
[ link ]I totally agree with you about needing the precision with the controls.
I wonder though with the new version of Traktor, being able to zoom in as much as you want on the wave form, if making perfect beat grids will now just be easy enough that I won’t need the precision from an analog input.
Looking at the 4midiloop, if it wasn’t $1600, I’d probably jump on it.
[ link ]Simply put: DJs are here to entertain. Richie even said this himself in an interview. Its about what you do not just about what you play. He mentioned going to his laptop, messing with this controller, that controller, etc. Jog wheels give you something to mess with and show to the crowd (who are paying attention).
If you look at the Reloop gear they feature multiple uses for the jog wheels, which I think is the idea for them. I see easy browsing, FX, track searching, and possible scratching. The first 3 listed are great even with the A&H XONE mini jog wheels. Not big at all, but can be powerful tools.
What people are doing is missing the point who think Richie should be followed by “DJs.” He is very innovative and manipulates EDM music to no end. This is leading new ways of DJing this type of music, however you typical DJ does always play EDM and cant get away with manipulating their tunes all the time.
Summary: Jog wheels are a waste of Richie’s space, and anyone with his type of music and DJ style. For many others jogwheels, big or small, may come in handy for multiple uses.
[ link ]+1
Still, I personally think that having something is better than not having the same thing. You never know when it will come handy and what usage for jogs will traktor3 have
OFC I’m not speaking about situations where ultra-compact size does matter
[ link ]A few years ago, I suggested in a private techy area of my forum, that jog wheels were just too small for effective scratching, and that a linear controller would be more natural. I was mocked for suggesting such a thing, but I still believe it to be true. Backwards and forwards on something the size of an Apple Magic Trackpad (perhaps 1/3 the width) would be an ideal device.
[ link ]Well Sir, you were right. It feels good to be right from time to time and Congrats and keep making predictions.
[ link ]I am in love with this thread. People keep talking. My curiosity is peaked!
[ link ]This really all depends on your style of play.
Are you a scratch DJ?
If yes of course you can do what Ean Golden did in his recent video. I find this amazing BUT he is doing this on a dedicated scratch sound sample with 4 cue points set and the faders used for the effects. This is serious set up just to scratch. Can a scratch DJ that uses DVS or a controller really do this on the fly. Definitely not. I think the true scratch DJ who is putting on his beat juggling and all that still needs a jog wheel.
If you don’t scratch, which honestly how many of you do on a regular basis, then you don’t need a jog wheel that is taking up a huge portion of the unit. Get a tiny wheel or even a smooth high precision rotary for your phasing and nudging. A touch pad would be great but the strip search pads that a lot of controllers have now aren’t that precise at all and are definitely lagging slightly.
The bottom line is this: It depends what you play and how you play.
[ link ]I cant help but agree, after liking the look of the mixtrack with nice big circular jogs (because thats what im programmed to see, it felt familiar) and buying one, i now realise they are the old way still, and the big jog could simply be reduced to a constant twist type of knob the same size as the rest.
With digital USB scratch decks for the madskillz turnbablists i think mainstream digi kit will reduce them to small finger wheels at most.
[ link ]I wont be giving up my VCI-300 any time soon… I’ve grown quite fond of it
[ link ]I think the VCI-300 is the closest controller to two decks and a mixer that I’ve ever used.
[ link ]Maybe Richie Hawtin needs to focus more on not playing abominal tunes and less about jogwheels and the world will be a better place…
[ link ]Make that “abominable tunes”. D’oh.
[ link ]We knew what you meant
[ link ]nope – I had to look that up… löl
[ link ]It’s funny looking back at this, because now we have Twitch!
[ link ]Yes,indeed it is. I DJed with Twitch last night and loved it. Missed manual looping but not much else.
[ link ]Yes, but we have hacked cdx talking with Traktor too…
http://vimeo.com/26625989
Freedom for choice (your tools for the trade).
[ link ]You say “How long before a killer mutation of one of these programs really nails the new way of DJing, and inspires its own raft of controllers to make proper use of all of its features?”
I really don’t want to sound like a Fan Boy, but the Twitch is pretty flexible and it does a great job of doing both the Traktor stuff and the Ableton stuff to some extent (they are the same buttons as are on the Launchpad just fewer of them). Then again, I’m not really making a LOT of music to play live, I’m using the two track decks and two sample decks (8 sample tracks) in Traktor (currently) and I can really enhance what’s playing by slipping some groove tracks behind the playing tracks and occasionally dropping in a Cameo sample. In theory, I could make one of the sample decks a Mic’ed in line and sing (if I wanted to).
This will be augmented soon when my ReMOTE 25 SL MkII arrives and I can start dedicating more of the Ableton controls to it and focus on the upcoming 16 sample tracks per sample deck in April when Traktor version 2.5 comes out.
[ link ]