'It was great in '78!' Isn't it time hip-hop stopped being so narrow-minded about new DJ technology?
“I’m DJ Iceman and I’m a controllerist.” This is how my greeting would start at the DJs Anonymous meeting, shortly before being kicked out of the room for not being a “real DJ”. This is how it is in the realm of hip-hop. I’ve been a DJ for 30 years, the last five being digital, and it seems that in an age of “keeping it 100″, in hip-hop circles there is no room for the kind of progress controllerism promises.
Please let me tell you my story. I started my DJ journey in 1982, following behind my uncle A.D. (who was a big deal at the time, being the first DJ from Brooklyn to be down with the Universal Zulu Nation). I would bug him endlessly to teach me how to DJ. At seven years old I really didn’t know what it was to be a DJ, but I saw A.D. do block parties and the crowd going nuts, and I wanted to make the crowd go nuts too.
My analogue years
Well, I got my chance in May of ’82. when A.D. got some gear – and I got the old stuff! Fast forward a year and after I did my first block party with A.D., I knew that this was my calling.
After I did my first block party with A.D., I knew that this was my calling…
Over the next 24 analogue DJ years there were all the usuals ups and downs most “real-life” DJs go through: Stops and starts, DMC qualifiers, DJ contests, mixtapes, shows, a four-year hitch in the Navy, various nine-to-five jobs, marriage, divorce, kids, and life in general, but I still DJed when and where I could.
So now it’s 2002, and after a stint as a corrections officer, I’m starting on my MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) career. With fights come after-parties, and I end up DJing one of these parties. And guess what? My co-DJ was using CDJs. I admit, I kind of lost it! Wow, he was doing everything I was but on CDs – and being the hip-hop purist, I promised I’d never go that route.
Time to go digital…
A few years later there I am, deciding to get into DJing full time again – yet with kids and not a lot of money, a full set-up is out of the question. But a friend of mine gives me a go on this new program called “Virtual DJ”, and I’m blown away.
The Hercules MP3 controller: One of the first, but alas, not one of the best.
I go out and do a few gigs, giving the other DJs a very good laugh when I walk in (by now digital vinyl has taken hold). They’re genuinely shocked when they see I can actually hold the crowd. “But it’s not really DJing!”. “The computer’s doing all the work…”
Nonetheless I decide to go the “controller” route. The first controllers I try (Hercules MP3, Numark Omni Control) truly suck as the jogs aren’t touch-sensitive, but I keep at it – and of course we all know how much controllers have now changed since these early days.
However, one thing that hasn’t changed is hip-hop’s attitude: Every DJ wants to “preserve the culture”, and that culture is seen as having two turntables and a mixer. It’s been decided that Serato Scratch Live is OK, but that controllers are “toys” – something no serious DJ would use.
Never mind that the same thing was said about Serato and the other DVS systems (and CDJs – yes, by me too!) when they first appeared: It’s plainly evident that it’s going to take a plenty longer yet for controllers to gain any respect in hip-hop circles.
The big question…
So having found myself on both sides of the argument, I confess I’m still mystified as to why hip-hop is remains set in its ways. As a controller evangelist, I find myself regularly getting into discussions and outright arguments about this. What I find even stranger is this: isn’t a DVS system basically the same? I look at DVS as simply a different form of controllerism.
I find myself regularly getting into discussions and outright arguments about this…
For me, with many clubs downsizing their booths, I needed something small, and after my MMA career my back isn’t what it used to be! So having a controller is just easier. The way I see it, as long as you can keep the crowd going nuts, why should it matter?
Yet despite having absolutely nothing to prove as a DJ, I still to this day find myself fighting to get respect as a controllerist playing hip-hop – and I am at a loss to explain why, here in 2012, this is should still be so.
• DJ Iceman has been a DJ for 30 years and a controllerist for the last five. He currently resides in Tacoma, Washington.
So why do you think hip-hop is still holding out against to onslaught of controllerism, especially as it has taken digital vinyl to it heart? Are you a hip-hop DJ who’s faced the same prejudices at DJ Iceman? Or are you on the other side of the fence, feeling that think hip-hop and vinyl should forever be interlinked? We’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments.
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Tags: controllerism, hip hop
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Try that shit with DrumnBass if you want to find close minded people
[ link ]Also it has to be said there are pockets of hipster house fans, especially in mainland Europe, where this is still the case. Some of the most forwarding looking scenes of yesteryear now becoming ultra-conservative…
[ link ]I was actually referring to this video by Hype. It is meant to be an interview but all he does is actually finding excuses why he uses Serato now… Really weird why someone like Hype really feels like he has to excuse for this like he has never proven himself… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVhRsC51us0
[ link ]The DnB scene isn’t that bad anymore, at least here in Germany. A lot of dubstep DJs I’ve met were really hardcore militant vinyl fetishists though.
[ link ]that makes literally no sense. you can interweave dubstep songs on so many more levels with sampledecks and multiple files.
[ link ]digital is the way.
most of that retro-idiots (i spin vinyl at least at home, so i’m not off totaly) carry iphones or similar technology, which is totaly unneccessary (!) but in a way very convenient. such hypocryts…
DnB scene here, I’d love to punch in the face some of them.
[ link ]Man….. If you don’t know why hiphop sticks to turntables…..then…..you have not turned your Turntables into a insterment, you have probly just been a mix DJ! I’m a Turntablest like a Gutarist or a drummer! I chop beats, scratch, Juggle slice and make beats on the turntables! I love Vinyl! I love collecting Vinyl! I have Serato becase it is 2012 and its just the way it is! If I had my choice I would only still use vinyl! I promice you can not do what I do with a controler! I even just payed $2000 just to get one last brand new set of Technics 1210MK5′s! I have spent most of my life using 1200′s and I don’t want to stop! That’s just what it is!
[ link ]by all means. beatjuggling on vinyl is fun. with digital equipment and built in efx contollers you can (not will but can) do so much more. and that is what you neglegt. hip-hop like all music forms never stood still but evolved. why do you wanna keep it forced on vinyl? because your idols all spinned vinyl?
did they have smart phones? oh, course, that’s not what we are talking about, right?
see it this way: turning down your car windows by hand was fun.
nowadays, almost nobody thinks back to the old times, you just flip a breaker.
go retro or go digital. i don’t care. most important thing: fun. yours and your crowd. the latter most of all.
and hell, don’t dictate the future of hiphop. hip-hop like you know it, is dead (because it changed)
[ link ]I feel ya buddy but…have you had a chance to play around with Numark’s NS7? If not, you should look in to it. Its the closest thing to spinning with 1200′s as far as digital gear is concerned.
[ link ]I think the scene is changing slowly though, DJ Shadow once said that he’d never touch CDs yet a couple of years later CDJs were an integral part of his live setup. Skip forward to last year and he’s doing entire sets via laptop, controllers and CDJs – not a turntable in sight. To be fair though, he’s also been doing tiny venues with just vinyl (not Serato!) and turntables.
Jazzy Jeff was one of the first DJs I’d seen using Serato out at gigs and last year most DJs at BPM (including Cutmaster Swift) were using DVS systems with Novation Dicers alongside. So traditional hip-hop (and other genre) DJs who learnt their skill with vinyl do adopt new technology, but only when it suits them and when the solutions are right.
I think the problem that most find with platter-based controllers is that if you’ve come from a turntable or even a CDJ background, the tiny platters on a lot of controller units feel flimsy and not as responsive. Another part of the puzzle is the mixer. Hip-Hop DJs are most likely to care very passionately about the quality of the controls and if (like me) they have access to a Rane ttm56 (or equivalent) then they are unlikely to move away from a silky smooth and adjustable crossfader.
[ link ]The Hip-Hop turntabelist purists will not accept anything smaller than 12″ motorized joggwheels. All others is not as good when it comes to scratching. That is 100% true and no one can argue against it!
There is also the angle that a laptop is not a DJ gear and not constructed to be in the inviroment of a club with heavy vibrations from the bass, smoke machines and drinks!
And another is that a DJ shall take space and been seen as he today is an entertainer and not someone who just turn records.
The reason why SSL is OK by Hip-Hop Djs is that Serato has not added autosync!
[ link ]Oh, no autosync…
[ link ]So you’re saying that matching 2 bpm values and aligning 2 waveforms is manual beatmatching ?
Thank you. That’s the biggest question I have always asked myself.
[ link ]There’s no autosync because autosync is rather retarded in a DVS system. TSP has it as they use it with their controllers. Touch a record or CDJ to scratch and the timecode reads whatever the medium is playing at and would reset.
Serato does have autosync in their other products though that are built for controllers.
[ link ]I am a hip hop dj an fan since 1998. When I got interrested in
[ link ]hip hop music, it was all about skills. And that´s why it wasn´t
enough for a dj to just mix to get respect. You had to have some tricks up your sleeve. In my eyes, scratching is essential for every hip hop dj. The first reason is that this artform (yes I said artform) is deeply tied too the hip hop sound. If I listen to a hip hop dj, I want him to scratch, to cut his tracks, to do some beat juggeling, because this is how hip hop sounds best. The second reason is, that learning how to scratch and mix the classic hip hop way shows your commitment. As opposed to pressing the sync button, it´s not something you can learn in a day. It takes years of hard work to sound decent.
You don´t need to go qbert, but at least master some basic scratching if you want to mix hip hop. And actually the best equipment for scratching is a turntable.
Personnally, I do not hate on controllerist. I respect guy´s with skills. Do something creative with your controller, amaze me, show me you put some real effort in your djing, like the legends I respect and admire and I will even forgive you for not having learned how to scratch
Hip hop is more than playing lil wayne on your laptop to get chicks, it is a culture, and a hip hop dj is expected to know and respect this. Because controllers makes it very easy to start djing, which is a good thing, old school hip hop djs will always suspect you of being this “I´m djing to be cool” guy. But if you show them that you got skills and that you are committed, they will respect you.
In conclusion, it´s not about controller or turntable. I will summarize my point in one catchy, cheesy old (27) man´s quote:
“keep it real”.
And by the way, I use a dvs system.
I get how that applies to the Hip-Hop scene, but where you say “Personnally, I do not hate on controllerist. I respect guy´s with skills. Do something creative with your controller, amaze me, show me you put some real effort in your djing, like the legends I respect and admire and I will even forgive you for not having learned how to scratch” Do you mean just in the Hip-Hop scene or in general?
[ link ]If I was playing a deep house/techno set to you, live remixing and mashing up three or four decks, the only way you’d notice what I was doing is if you either had heard all the tracks I was using or if I was doing something wrong.
In that style of music and with my style of mixing it, the idea is that arrangements of the music I’ve constructed should amaze you, without having to resort to outlandish effects.
My point being, different DJs will always find different ways of mixing different styles of music. One rule cannot define us all, nor can it judge what makes us great.
True. And if you´d play this kind of set I would be amazed, or at least I would respect you for the effort you have put into it. My point is I wan´t a dj not only to play music, but to “enhance” my listening experience with his style. And style means work. And nomather the genre, you can always recognize style.
[ link ]IMHO, you live in the past…you die there.
When I got into digital, my colleagues where of the Chicago hard house culture that mimics hip-hop culture. They scratch and cut the way hip-hop DJs do, and they also thought I was crazy to go laptop. Now they practically all went Torq or Sera to after seeing the advantages of going digital, a few even got controllers after they saw how convenient my xponent was.
The old guard is going to drift away into memory, and new youth will take over. It won’t be too long until we see more hip-hop DJs try controllers and do amazing things with it. DMC made a controller division. That speaks volumes that we’re not going anywhere. NAMM is coming up. How many new turntables will we see compared to controllers?
[ link ]As much as I don’t like it, I’m going to agree. A lot of the early pioneer hip-hop DJs are now little more than curios, playing the same crate of records over and over.
BTW it was Joseph Saddler’s (Grandmaster Flash) 54th birthday a few days ago – how many more years use can he get out of his copies of Apache? Even QBert is into his 40s. Time is ticking on for these guys.
In order for controllerism to gain respect among a wider audience, it needs more pioneers. Ean Golden is doing a good job, but he can’t do it alone. I wonder how long it will be until we see controllers being used at the DMC championships? Last year there were quite a few entries in the DMC online championships using controllers, iPads and various DVS systems…maybe one of these entrants will be the next QBert for the Controllerist age?
[ link ]hold on whats this a bit of ageism
[ link ]It may sound like ageism, I promise it’s not meant that way! I just wonder how long many ‘big-name’ DJs can remain a credible pull and relevant at venues attracting an audience of under mostly 25s.
[ link ]I think the fact that Panasonic tried to make a Technics CDJ shows were things are going. Also, how long will all these 1200′s last? (I know, a LONG time) but the brand is officially dead now right?
[ link ]…yet the Technics SLDZ1200 failed to dent the dominance of Pioneer and the CDJ.
[ link ]Such a can of worms its unreal, I can understand why a lot of DJz will look down on newer technology though. If u dont understand it or care to utilize its easier to rubbish it. A bit like racism really scientifically we know its stoopid2 hate on people for the colour of their skin but some still do.
What gets me is punters in their late teens or early twenties saying that aint djin because ur using Virtual DJ and a controller. That only usng vinyl and 1210s is actually DJing, even though they dont own one scrap of vinyl or dont know uv got a garage full of vinyl lmfao. Iv actually moved to Traktor because its such a headache and to stop myself from
stomping some drunken fools head into the ground as it adds a bit of mystery to the uneducated. Also the semi educated think ah Traktor is kool because I read it on the interweb somewhere. When questioned though u find out thats its other DJz spreadin the myth of how controllerism isnt really DJin. Back to the beginning hating is stupid but we keep on doin it…….
[ link ]I have an S4, but still find myself using my TT500′s and X1, it just feels Right.
[ link ]I find it hilarious the same dj’s who frown on controllers and the dj’s who use them are the one’s jumping up and down like little girls when they hear ARAABMUZIK make a beat on the MPC.
[ link ]because that’s “real shit” homie!
*giggle*
[ link ]I got into DJing three years ago and have always been a controlerist. When I first started out I used to get comments about my gear (mostly bc it was small and at the time, not of the greatest quality). Nowadays I am usually getting comments about how easily I can rock the crowd and how simply and quick to setup my whole rig is. I have upgraded my controller three times, going from a bcd3000, to a hercules rmx, and just recently picked up a Numark NS7FX and the people in my area are blown away by the Numark. I can do everything a traditional setup can, but it takes me 25 minutes to setup and 15 to strike.
[ link ]Having paid my dues on the mobile scene with a traditional setup of 2 turntables, vinyl and a mixer – 25 minutes to setup seems excessive. I managed to get packing the kit away at the end of an evening down to a fine art – probably less than 5 minutes flat!
[ link ]That does seem long. The longest it should take to setup is booting up your laptop and loading ITCH. You should really only have 4 cables to plug in (power, USB, 2 master outs) and a case to open. Cleaning up should be even quicker as you don’t even have to shut down your laptop you can just close the lid and pack it up, shut down later at home.
[ link ]DJ Iceman = awesomeness. Im just starting with controllers but my dream setup is a dvs system really.
[ link ]Crazy – show up with a 909 drum machine, a step sequencer and a mic and do a live hip hop show and the heads will turn.
Use Ableton Live with a drum rack of 909 sounds and a controller and get the stink-eye.
Personally, I think the purists will be purists, but the number of open minded people ready to embrace technology is growing.
[ link ]I don’t care what the dj is using, it’s how he is using it.
[ link ]This guy use autosync but don’t know anything about phrase, bar, pattern, chorus : lame.
Going nuts with fx and not able to manage levels : lame.
Scratching like crazy and boring the crowd : lame.
Surely the point is that just because you used autosync, doesn’t mean you can’t phrase match etc.
[ link ]Of course but lots of “auto-folks” don’t know how to do, in case of “It doesn’t work as expected”, and this is the big issue imo.
[ link ]There is always controversy when music evolves. It is amusing to me to watch DJ P on BET’s “Master of the Mix” competition show carry on about how he still uses vinyl and not Serato and repeatedly dis controller/digital djs. The thing he forgets is, a lot of the musicians who’s records he cuts up don’t consider him as a DJ a real musician and “lazy” as he likes to say about digi djs.
I’ve seen this a lot in the church too. Up until the 50s and 60s, what is now standard gospel music, was considered “blues shouting” and too worldly. To allow electric guitars and drums in the church was once abhorrent, now no one thinks twice about it.
[ link ]Before the microphone, one of the most important parts of being a professional singer was to be extremely loud. After the mic was introduced, there was a backlash from older vaudevillian performers who were able to scream to the back row who lost gigs to newer performers without the previously required extremely loud pipes. Bing Crosby was notably criticized by older singers as not being a “real singer” because he did best with a microphone, which showcased his vocal control and was something he couldn’t replicate without one. Also early in his career, Muddy Waters was ridiculed by older bluesmen for using an electric guitar, which was seen as cheating at the time. Fast forward a few decades and using a mic and an electric guitar are the standard.
I, too, see the irony in DJ P’s criticism of controllerists and his “keep it real” stance. If he truly wants to keep it real, why does he selectively forget that in hip-hop’s early days, most musicians didn’t even consider hip-hop to be music at all? There was loud and vocal criticism from legendary artists (such as Mtume, James Brown and others) about rap’s disposable qualities.
Bottom line, musical technology will always progress. Then the music will progress as those that are able to master the new technology best emerge.
[ link ]thank you very much.
[ link ]imho this is the best and most useful comment i ever read about that topic.
I couldn’t have put it better myself. It has been like this for as long as I can remember. Hip hop artists were initially panned as talentless thieves for their use of the sampler and the same applies to the early house pioneers who were criticised for using drum machines and other technology to “cheat”
I understand why someone who has sweated blood and tears searching dusty basements for records and spent years learning to beat match feels slightly peeved when some kid can become a DJ with nothing more than a stack of mp3s and a synch button but for hip hop DJs I don’t see the issue.
If you have the skill to cut and scratch on a controller you still have sweated blood and tears to learn that technical ability, the software can’t do it for you.
[ link ]I love the way people say “art-form” and then proceed to tell you the “formula” to create it. HAHAHAHA!
they got a lot to learn about art
all I can say is that if they don’t like controllers, they are reeeally gonna hate some of the scratches I’m doing with DJAY and auto-cut.
There is innovation going on within hiphop, but like the saying goes, “the revolution will not be televised” -it will be on youtube instead
[ link ]hahaha You said it the best!!!
[ link ]I’m just going to say this one time, and I hope it is clear. DJing is about the music, not the kit that you play the music on. If someone is playing music on a freaking avacado plugged into some speakers and people are getting into it then he is better than the guy scratching with no one dancing, or the guy doing a controllerism routine with an empty dancefloor.
(On a sidenote DJ Iceman’s life seems really interesting… Naval Service, MMA fighting, Dj-ing, and more? that sounds like the script for a forrest gump kind of movie! Cheers to you man.)
[ link ]Who cares how you killed the cow as long as we all get to eat.
[ link ]Well, I’m just a newbie in the business (being dj’ing only for the last 2 years)
I’ve had my try with CDj’s, and then I try out Traktor; well, it was easier, u can carry your whole music library spaceless, u won’t never have to say again “I got that record at home”, just ’cause u wasn’t thinking about actually playin’ it.
Everyone look at my laptop + controller setup as a “kid” thing, or a cheatin’ trick.
But I guess at the end of the day what really matters is keepin’ people dancinì and screamin’ like crazy, they don’t really care how u do that.
Great article btw!
[ link ]Cheers From Italy
My guess about the hiphop scene is that it’s so focused on the mixing process as an artform that it just does not understand how doing the same thing with different methods can actually work. Also, technical skills are a much bigger part of DJing there, Think turntablism. Skills on the analog decks have become some kind of status symbol. You can’t scratch on the MKII, you ain’t welcome in my club, bro.
[ link ]To be honest, I kind of understand that. Not that I share that view, I don’t. I think it’s stupid. But I kinda get where it comes from.
At first, sorry for my awful english
The first thing is: Hip-Hop is a culture, and a big part of this culture is something called digging, which means searching for old records in strange places, like independent record shops, flea markets or second hand stores. A group of friends digging the crates together (often organizing trips to different towns, in order to find some new obscure shops) is much funnier way of spending time than a lone guy looking at beatport on his laptop
The second thing is: Scratching on vinyl is just better than scratching on jog whells. Scratching on DVS is fine, but it won’t beat scratching on this old, dirty vinyl edition of Eddy Murphys stand up comedy show, that you’v found on flea market last friday
The third thing is that lot of vinyl purists use their turntables not only for mixing but for sampling old records and for listening music on their high quality home sound systems.
What I’m trying to say, is that some of us just love thoes old pieces of junk, and you can’t win with love
Personally, I think that midi controller can be a great addition to Hip Hop Dj setup, but not the main part of it. I have classic setup of two turntables and mixer (no DVS, but I’m working on it) + Laptop + Novation Launchpad + Reloop Play. Works perfect for me.
[ link ]Thanks for your input, lots of truth there.
[ link ]The whole crate-digging aspect actually applies to many ‘scenes’. I’ve heard many a DJ from various musical backgrounds, wax lyrical about the days of spending entire afternoons on the record shop hunting for secret weapons for the night ahead. House, Hip-Hop, Techno & Trance. You name it, they all were there (albeit in different sections of the shop!
)
If I’m honest, I guess I’m kinda glad I missed it. As they say, ignorance is bliss.
But, while it’s no longer a social experience, I do enjoy hunting the web for killer tracks. From asking guys on Soundcloud for a cheeky copy in my dropbox to checking out what TrackItDown.net has in it’s ‘Recommended For You’ section.
By the way, Your English is fine, don’t sweat it bro.
[ link ]They look at that shit crazy in big cities but in Mississippi I’m fine with controllers
[ link ]Its a bit like this in the uk you could buy a vw golf or a skoda,basically the 2 cars are the same,same engine same build different badge yet the vw has kudos and the skoda can be looked down on[although this attitude is slowly changing]
[ link ]You say you use virtual dj[nothing wrong with this program at all] but In some peoples minds its not serato or traktor,so maybe it would be a wise move as far as the opinion of others go to look to switch software and continue to use a controller.
All depends on how much these other djs attitudes bother you.
Most Hip Hop dj’s use this set-up or a variation of: 2 Technics, Rane mixer, Serato SL, Vestax VFX-1 effect processor, 2 novation Dicer’s. THIS IS A CONTROLLER! lol
[ link ]Some discussions will never end. It doesn’t matter what you use as long as your skills are up to par. I’ve been in the game since 1976. I was 14 at the time. I’ll be 50 this year. Here’s the bottom line. Technic’s did not set out to make the 1200 the industry standard for DJ’s, they just happened to make the best motorized turntable at the time so everyone adapted to it. With controllers there is no clear frontrunner at all at this point. The problem is that the company’s are trying to make the equipment do all the work to make up for the fact that newer people using them can just open a box and be playing within minutes. I remember Funk Flex saying that it doesn’t matter how large your music library is (because that is the only advantage to being digital), “I can walk into a party with fewer records and still destroy you.” That would be based on skills alone. Controllers remind me of this saying, “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit”. I personally have used both, and guess what, no one cared because they had the same experience by the time they left the venue. They had a great time and all left the building waiting for the next party. In conclusion I will just say, worry less about the set-up and more on your technique to move the crowd. Have a safe a prosperous 2012. Let’s make that money & have fun doing it.
[ link ]Isnt Snoog Dogg using VirtualDJ for ages..
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/230250_10150188749445912_55903090911_6922209_1059137_n.jpg
[ link ]To me the opinion of other Dj’s don’t matter….you will be judged regardless. #doyou! everything else in the world progresses……
[ link ]I am strictly a turntablist. The real issue is that it takes ZERO skill to push a button! Plus, you can’t really scratch on those things. Sure not everyone wants to scratch, but it’s what makes the turntable so powerful. Additionally it’s the highest reproduced sound quality period. The truth is that It takes the actual “DJ” out of the equation and turns it more into a realm where anyone can call themselves a Dj with little or no experience. What this means is that Joe Shmo can go buy a piece of equipment and charge $50 for the night, undercut everyone with little or no experience. What makes it worse is that those who have no clue about the art will put him in the same category as seasoned veterans! That harms the whole scene no matter what syle of music you play. Please tell me if I’m wrong here… There is nothing wrong with people who use them it does open the door for those not worthy of the title Dj. I use Serato now but I just can’t Dj without the turntables. Point blank using only a controller is just lame. It’s the lazy way to Dj.
[ link ]Your argument is against controllerism. Most people agree digital is valid nowadays – we’ve debated it endlessly on here – but Iceman is particularly perplexed why this should be especially so in hip hip.
[ link ]This is a lame response, bro. Most patrons DO NOT CARE about equipment. Pickin’ crappy music? That will really set them off. True enough, being a DJ is more accessible. Does it make better DJs? Nope. Does having turntables make better DJs? Nope. I remember one in particular that sucked something awful.
[ link ]i get a lot of crap from djs,cause i consider myself a controllerist now. ive been a traditional dj for 25 years with tables and mixers and wax,and now within the last 5 years(which add up to 30 years in the game) i found something different,that make djing fun for me again,and i get shit on cause im not the “industry standard” SCREW THAT!! i was there before there was an industry,before there was records,when they were playing billy squire,and james brown,and old rock at hallway partys. there were NO HIP-HOP RECORDS,just party tapes. i dont use serato “the industry standard” cause im not an industry standard dj.(not to shit on people that do use it)when everybody had techs i was rockin gemini tables with a gemstar mixer,when most people moved to cdjs i still had turntables.everybody has serato i rock vdj. everybodys looking for the next big thing,or whats the hottest thing out,i just look for what works for me.its worked for 30 years and it will probably work for 30 more.so when these haters can say their career is 30 years long MAYBE i might give a listen.
[ link ]how long have you been a dj?? after 30 years im in that “been there done that” stage a lot of younger djs talk about tradition and dont really know about it unless youve mixed with 2 hi-fi stereos or 2 reel to reels, or had a mixer with no crossfader i dont want to hear about how old school you are.unless you are still using actual vinyl (a la dj p) you are in the same boat as a controlerist. take away the laptop and interface box and what happens….
[ link ]So let me get this right ur hating on controllers because your getting undercut by a $50 kid? I wouldnt blame controllers for that but obviously something somewhere is wrong!
Its a bit like hip hop itself you either move with it or you stay playing old tunes to the same old people at the same old venue. Love the fact that people limit themselves for no apparent reason than keeping it real…….
[ link ]“Skip Rip – The real issue is that it takes ZERO skill to push a button!”
You can button push all night and it won’t teach you phrasing – or the music theory to understand why beats and bars are so important. Just sync-ing won’t let you take the crowd on a musical journey – that still requires skill and forethought.
“Skip-Rip – Plus, you can’t really scratch on those things.”
No? Set your hands to a VCI-300, my friend.
I understand the purist notion, as I started with vinyl over 25 years ago. Free your mind (and lighten your hands) and come on board with the new generation.
[ link ]Fully agree on both points. Sometimes DJs who say “you only have to push a button” are those who learnt to manually beatmatch while still not understanding beats, bars, programming etc. They wear manual beatmatching like an authenticity badge while not realising it actually has nothing to do with the wider art of music programming or indeed music itself – it’s just a bloody hard-to-learn hack.
Sure “turntablism” is a skill (albeit one that can eventually bore the pants off me – but hey, that’s just me), but music and playing that music to people who want to dance to it? That’s what DJs do. That’s what’s important.
However, this article IS about hip hop, not that old wider debate. And of all the DJ communities where deck skills have in the past really mattered (think back to Grandmaster Flash), this is one of the most obvious. I think our author is trying to understand why things in hip-hop struggle to move on.
[ link ]Iceman, you are a victim of player hating. Seriously, what’s more important? Booties shakin’? Or some purist still stuck in the past? Instead of worrying about equipment, hip-hop needs to worry about what artist they’re letting represent the culture. I use a laptop and play old school all the time. Only folks asking me about scratching are folks who didn’t get my gig. Put your hater blockers on and ignore those fools. Trust me, hip-hop WILL catch on to it. Just give it time.
[ link ]i find it really funny how djs wanna crap on each other cause some embrace the new technology and some want to stay with the old. but in some way we all have to move on. you dont hear stephen king like “naw you gotta keep it real,a real author uses a pencil and paper to write” you dont hear any race car drivers like “screw nascar im keeping it real with this horse and buggy son” you dont hear any chefs like”you aint a real cook,you use a stove and microwave,im keeping it real with that fire pit son,OPEN FLAME BOYYYY!!” but since i use virtual dj and a controller and not vinyl (even though i have a lot of it) or serato my 30 year career dont count,im not a real dj. screw them im not concerned with that,use what best for you,cause sooner or they will have to change.and if they was REALLY keeping it real they wouldnt use a computer to talk smack,they would have written me a letter!! im not gonna get into my whole personal beef with “industry standards” but the bottom line for me is as long as you are loving what you do,and are rockin the crowd it shouldnt matter what you use. a lot of djs have such an inflated sense of their own self worth,its stupid!! most guys are like everybody else,mindless sheep that fall behind the next person cause they dont want to be seen as “different” or “not real”. trying to keep up with the Jones. you got all these people using the SAME STUFF,THE SAME WAY AS EVERYBODY ELSE,so WHAT MAKES THEM STAND OUT?? to me they dont its almost like watching porn,if youve seen one youve sen them all cause they all follow the same format!! so bottom line for me,unless you are a PIONEER (kool herc,red alert,gw theodore), INNOVATOR(q-bert,mixmaster mike,ean golden) RECOGNIZED ICON(jazzy jeff,frankie knuckles,kid capri),OR ANYBODY THAT HAS HELPED ADVANCE THE ART OF DJING,I DONT CARE HOW LONG YOUVE BEEN IN THE GAME,your opinion of whats/whos a real dj holds no bearing to me!!
[ link ]Let me start by saying: to each his own. F#ck what anyone thinks and use what you want to use!
I think one of the reasons why the older generation of Hip Hop DJ’s didn’t like the controllers was because of the way they were advertised. I saw a lot of promo videos for controllers with guys who were clearly not real DJ’s, but probably worked in their sales department playing a house beat and showing you how ‘easy’ it is to mix with a controller. That feels like a slap in the face to Hip Hop DJ’s who busted their ass for years to build their skills.
Nowadays all the brands use dmc champs to promote their controllers. That helps, but a lot of the new controllerism routines used in these videos are moving away from ‘traditional’ DJ’ing. It’s more about on the spot live remixing and production with triggering samples and loops, using cues to make beat patterns and even melodies (with everything on auto synch). That could feel like “it’s not DJíng” to a DJ who is used to playing/mixing/scratching tracks.
I’ve been using serato for years and i also use an NS7/nsfx. I’m a Hip Hop DJ (20 years now), but i saw the advantages of a dvs system from day one because i could play the way i prefer to DJ (with turntables), but at the same time take advantage of all of the extra’s a dvs system brings to the table. Same with the NS7. It has the turntable feel, but it offers more than a turntable can offer me.
I like the controllers and i will be adding more controllers to my collection in the future, but i will say this: all the dope controllerists i’ve seen so far are DJ’s that started with turntables. Most of the people who start with a controller lack a certain understanding that you get from playing with turntables. So i might feel like a lot of new DJ’s with controllers aren’t real DJ’s (because they only know how to press synch and cue), but i will always embrace new technology!
[ link ]Hi guys…
Maybe you will enjoy checking “The Lost Interview” from Sifu Bruce Lee. He talks about “styles” and “human being”.
I’m not a controllerist, I’m not a turntablist, I’m NOT a Tooltablist… I’m just a FREE CREATIVE HUMAN using TOOLS for expressing myself honestly (and be happy). I will try to express it with a Haiku.
The Lion hunts, the zebra runs… booth in freedom.
The Man call itself things like Free or dj and become a prisioner of its own fear instead BEING these things.
Link to the master: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5705518582839508545
[ link ]Sorry about the bold, I forget an “/” rear “dj”.
The rest is not bold.
I hope it will useful for anyone.
Best wishes.
[ link ]-m!
It is a bit of an over statement to say that “Hip Hop” doesn’t respect controllerism. If anything, hip hop INVENTED controllerism with sample-based music being produced and processed by machines.
[ link ]However, when it comes to DJing, things are slightly different. For those of us with as much experience as DJ Iceman, being a DJ was not an accessible occupation—it meant shunning much of the world to dig ancient forgotten about records, it meant locking yourself away to practice things that most people did not accept as music, it meant investing thousands in hard-to-find equipment, and it meant after perfecting your craft, you still had to BEG to get a chance to play in public. Those dues were hard to pay, but as a peer group we were very tight because the bar was set so high.
That bar has now been eliminated, and there are many repercussions— for one, a huge amount of creative possibilities has been opened and new things can be tried with very little expensive investment. At the same time, the musical knowledge, reverence, and understanding that a beginner DJ needed to have years ago has eroded as the time taking skills such as record digging and beat matching have been replaced by google and auto sync—much to the detriment of the over all quality of our colleagues.
Disc Jockey. Look at those two words. You ride horses right? We ride the music mostly, we don’t MAKE it. (unless your a producer also). Turntablism is using the decks as instruments. That’s it. Wether you go digital or vinyl. A kid playing trap rap in a house party off an iPod is djing. So is a dude in a club with 400+ people and decks. Hip hop is a young culture. You don’t hear pink Floyd bitching at linkin park because they use some digital equipment. It’s just technology evolving. We could be djing with our brains in 20 years and flying cars. Get over it. We as humans need to grow up and embrace the dope shit.
[ link ]Yeah, I’m gonna disagree.
Now, I agree with you on a lot of things. For instance, I live and swear by Ableton and my APC40 as well.
However, yr forgetting about Low End Theory artists! Anyone who really knows and understands hip hop knows that LET has the hottest, most creative scene in hip hop right now. And most of the artists use controllers!
You even have guys like Araabmuzik throwing down on MPC’s and shit. Controllers are GREAT fr beatmaking.
I live in the ghetto, straight up. I was at the bus stop once and I had a Traktor X1 in my hand. This guy came up to me and said, “Yeah brotha! Keep doin it big, make those beats hell yea!” Most fans don’t give a shit. So who cares what other DJs think of my equipment? As long as I’m throwing it down.
Controllers are the future. No longer do DJs have to haul around records or huge turntables. I think that they allow kids in lower classes who are into hip hop/djing/music a cheaper and more convenient option to DJing and producing. Old fucks, get out the way, the new generation is coming up =]
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