Festivals mean big crowds and big acts... but do they cause big problems for the clubbing scene too?
Reader Eros reports how festivals in his native Australia have had a negative impact on clubbing: “Here in Oz we seem to be in festival overload. One might have thought this was good thing but in fact has had a negative impact on the club scene.
“Firstly when you factor in the cost of around AU$200, most kids are now saving up for two or three festivals rather than going clubbing regularly. As a result the local scene has started to suffer as the ‘regular clubber’ now seems to be a thing of the past. It’s now harder for local DJs to develop a following and the club culture that comes with regulars is also in decline.
“The other effect has been that as festival promoters started battling with each other we then got festival overload. To try and appeal to a broader audience they started varying the line up but again the result was that no one got what they wanted. Having Snoop Dog and Usher is hardly going to do it for trance heads. In an attempt to please everyone they now please no one. Having a three-hour wait for the next act you want to see totally kills the buzz for a lot of people.
Having Snoop Dog and Usher is hardly going to do it for trance heads. In an attempt to please everyone they now please no one.
“I was curious as to whether this phenomenon is exclusive to us as we are a smaller market or if this trend and shift away from regular clubbing is happening elsewhere also.
“I feel it’s really worrying for young DJs because no one starts out playing festivals, we all start in clubs and build from there. Festival promoters want big name producers who can draw a crowd not a relative unknown even though he might be great.”
I thought this was a great question and wanted to share what I observed in the UK in the late 90s. Then, it was a logical follow-on from weekly clubbing declining. A scene explodes, everyone’s clubbing every weekend, then “burn out” sets in, and the clubs aren’t as full as they once were.
The big promoters think: “We know what to do, we’ll put on an annual festival and make as much money in one day/weekend as we used to make in 50 nights a year.”
Happened in the UK massively that way.
As you say, the issue then is that everyone does it, line-ups (and attendances) lose focus, and venues close in towns where DJs used to learn their trade.
UK superclub Cream created Creamfields which it franchised worldwide as the scene that created the brand withered.
I think it’s cyclical – the festivals will start to fold too (in Europe, the promoters started taking their festival brands abroad at this point), the scene will lie dormant for a bit, then green shoots will appear as independent promoters start to do new things in small clubs and spaces in towns and cities, and eventually it all begins again.
The promising thing here is that there’s no reason why these “independent promoters” can’t be you and your friends.
If your needs aren’t being met, do something about it! Book a venue, get a Facebook Event posted, put your names on the flyers, and throw a party, then do it again. Hey, you’ve got a weekly club night!
Who knows, it may be you looking up Bjork’s agent, to see if you can book her between Tiesto and Bruce Springsteen in your unlikely festival 2021 line-up… 
How is it where you are? Is your local clubbing scene buoyant? Or have you seen a shift towards festivals too, at the expense of regular events? Please hare your thoughts in the comments.
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In my town, Clubs are Crap.
Rare event in the Big Days (Friday,Saturday night…), there’s only resident DJ’s that playing commercial tracks all night long.
I don’t blame commercial thing, but why going into a club to listen to a Filter transition DJ specialist that not really mixing tracks ?
I have done their job, I know it’s difficult to play tracks for 5 to 7 hours non stop, reading the crowd, handle with the requests, and playing the same things everyday…
So why go to that sort of Club when you have access to the same tracks, in your home, with Spotify or Deezer ? With some amazing playlists ?
That’s why festival is killing clubbing, when you go for it, you go to see an ARTIST, and not a DJ that you will never know his name because the Club’s BOSS is telling what you have to play, so you don’t communicate on your name…
I can say it : It was a shame for me to be a Resident DJ 2 years ago… But when DJing is the thing that fill your fridge, you have to do it…
[ link ]In northern parts of Europe (sweden) we have festivals summertime and rest of the year its clubs. But the one doesnt exclude the other, on the opposite. When we had the Summerburst festivals with Axwell, Avicii, Alesso, Adrian Lux, Thomas Gold, Dimitri Vegas and many more….there is no way you can experience all this in a club. The special thing with festivals is the mass of it. More people, better sound, better performance and people who are there for the music firstly. When this even gets broadcasted live on television on the biggest chanel in Sweden then people suddenly know what clubbing is. So the effect is that interrest for this music is getting more accepted and it starts to be as popular as if Metallica, madonna plays a concert. I think this is good because when the festivals are over people go to clubs to experience the same music. And as it gets more mainstream other clubs emerge with more experimanetall musicstyle and public that wants to listen to something new…so the genre develops even more and new branches get born. As for festivals getting to much, that happened here too. But after a while the ones that offered the best experience survived, people went to them and payed for that. Others went under. So festivals are lika all other products in a free market, if you cant offer what people want you go down. That will happen in Australia too, clubs must develop them selves too meet the competition and festivals will go under if they cant offer something new every year. Clubs can survive with smaller income but a festival can dissapear if one single play doens go good. So in long run clubs will survive, develop, and offer something new, breed new dj’s and so on…..so be happy that you have many festivals, that will dissapear!
[ link ]Another thing with Swedish festivals is that many of them have the festival and their act, and when the last act has played, the festival has cooperated with some clubs in a city near them, and booked more acta for those clubs so the festival visitors come in there free – and that’s super!
[ link ]Yes – and often the promoter of both is the same.
[ link ]“If your needs aren’t being met, do something about it!”
That’s the best advice there!! The old DIY method. I remember throwing my first rave over 10 years ago because the current promoters were doing great but I had a different idea and went with it and it worked. Not everyone has success but that’s how change happens! You don’t even have to book the superstar dj’s. If you do your homework you’ll find a lot of dj’s and establish yourself and if you have great intentions people will likely support you.
[ link ]People will do what they want to do. I see this as merely an extension of popularity. Home -> House Party -> Small Club -> Big Club -> Festival The only thing I see changing is the amount (and diversity) of people in attendance and money on the line.
People will be excited by the extravagance of a special event (festivals) but in the end, they will eventually settle back down into something comfortable and known (with fewer people)… their usual clubs.
[ link ]1st i read the title and i thought WTF??!! then i read the article and could understand the question and how it can affect the new starting djs! but still… from my perspective, the audience persepcitve, it makes much more sense to go to a festival rather then a club! 1st of all, no ofense to the djs in my hometown, but ALL of them suck! i wouldnt spend 5 bucks to see any of them! of course the people that just want to pick up some chicks or guys, they still go out coz they dont really care about the music! its not the best crowd, but its a crowd! 2nd, you might pay more but the ppl that want to hear good music like me, dont mind paying more to see a great dj perfom ! and 3rd wich in my opinion might be the stupidest but is very important aswell is the fact that you just buy a ticket and you are good to go! you dont have to worry about dressing good to impress the bouncer and be hoping that he lets you in, (wich is a big problem for lots of people in lots of places, im shure) and last but not least, you can smoke some Js, wich in lots of local clubs, you would be kicked out in a sec! so to me it makes total scense to go to a festival! of course if i had good clubs here, where good dj’s would come frequently i would go to them aswell! but seein how thats not the case, i have no choice but to go to festivals!
[ link ]I hate festivals. I very rarely want to keep raving until 7 in the morning and then spend 3 hours getting out of a car park.
[ link ]Are you getting old, Mr Steve?
[ link ]it has to be that because that is no problem for me hehe
[ link ]31 years young. I unfortunately don’t get to go out as much as I’d like nowadays. Living in a town with the only clubs around playing towards the beer crowds.
[ link ]Coming from the wonderful town of Southend which had an amazing house music club scene I certainly miss going out every weekend.
Even as a younger man I always preferred a nightclub to a festival. A DJ get build up a rapport with 300 people in a club a lot easier than he can build up a rapport with 1000-2000 in a field.
I kind of like both… I’ve had some great experiences in festivals, but I have to be honest, it’s usually some tent draped over a sound system van with some travellers banging out techno in a field on the fringes LOL, the main stage stuff can get boring when it’s DJs not bands.
[ link ]Hopefully. That means people under 21 who don’t want to wear button ups or mini skirts are starting to listen to dance music.
I don’t like the idea that there are two things to play, festivals or clubs. There’s also the option of starting your own scene, out of your house, coffee shop, parking lot, or school.
[ link ]Agree with starting your own scene, it’s the best route to getting fun parties and getting recognised (eventually, but that’s the way of the game).
[ link ]I don’t think festivals are the problem.
It’s simply the cost of clubbing these days, anywhere that has someone worth seeing in Australia be it an international or local will charge at least between $15 and $30. Anywhere with no cover charge will be playing commercial crap most likely over a terrible sound system.
Then there’s drink prices. Obviously you don’t have to drink when you’re out, but most people do. In Sydney if you want a beer in a nightclub with decent music it’ll be at least $7 and a spirit/mixer about $9. Sure you can find $5 beer and $7 spirits, but again it’ll be a bad club with terrible music.
The idea that people are saving up for festivals by not clubbing is pretty silly, maybe they might take the weekend before off and if you’re a person who has to save for weeks to come up with $200 for a festival you’re not going to be clubbing anyway.
If you’re willing to pay there’s amazing nights out there, even in Australia. My favourite nightclub in Sydney has a great international DJ usually every weekend on a great sound system in a nice environment. But once you take taxi,cover charge and drinks into account it turns into a $200 night out every time.
It’s not the cost or frequency of festivals killing clubs, it’s the cost of the clubs themselves.
[ link ]Good point, bit like top sports events eh? All the money goes to thr DJs/sports stars? but if enough people are willing to pay…
[ link ]Yup, and coupled with the fact that your average punter (i’m talking about an average clubber here, not someone with a genuine apreciation for electronic music) doesn’t want to hear an unknown DJ play unknown tracks anymore.. If they can’t see SHM play then they want the DJ to play SHM. They have no interest in being educated with new music and since it’s these people who bring the cash, clubs are going to cater for them.
Don’t get me wrong, there are still incredible underground parties going on where it is still about the music and being with like minded people. Around Sydney lots of crews hold parties which have a cover charge but are BYO, some (though getting rarer these days) are even still hosting fantastic free parties (though don’t expect cocktails, security, toilet facilities, free water or even legality) It’s these that I am finding myself more and more attracted to, while they may lack big name DJ’s they more than make up for it with good music, sound, people and value.
I think it’s parties like these which will hold the key for underground electronic music (In Aus anyway) until the whole ‘EDM’ bullshit craze dies out.
[ link ]Does SHM stand for s*** house music?
[ link ]Hi Gary, I’m not from Sydney but those underground nights that you mention sound awesome. Is there a link or site where they post events ? Would love to check it out.
[ link ]Haha SHM is Swedish house mafia, I was just using it as a generalization for mainstream, profit focused dance music which usually does turn out to be s*** house music!
[ link ]Hey Eros, a couple off the top of my head are ‘paradise lost’ parties, ‘DSS’ and ‘Chanel 10′ generally for these you sign up to a mailing list (or Facebook group) put your details down and they’ll release the venue address via text/email etc a few hours before hand. Nowadays there are also some more club orientated promoters throwing these types of parties, I know the ‘mad racket’ guys in Syd have held a couple away from their usual venue.
Hey Gary, Awesome, thanks so much for the info , will definitely check it out..might even try to gig at one !!
[ link ]As an Australian, I find it hard to agree with the point. We need festivals, it’s the only real way to attract the biggest names. This has really hit home for me today with the announcement of the Stereosonic lineup which has me very pleased. I don’t think it’s any harder out there in the club scene, it’s not like the clubs in Kings Cross, Newtown or any where else I’ve seen are any less full, same with Melbourne and Canberra. In fact I recently moved to Canberra and was pleasantly surprised by the vibrance and visits of relatively big names in the scene, though I did have very low expectations. While the festivals are getting bigger and bigger, I think this does have a bit of blowback in actually helping the club scene. Kids go to the Big Day Out when they’re sixteen and this fosters a desire to experience dance music on a more frequent basis.
I dunno, I really love festivals, maybe it’s because I have slightly more mainstream taste than the Eros (I probably occupy the ‘underground mainstream’ kind of area, with Dillon Francis, Porter Robinson, Bassnectar and Sander Van Dorm acts that I’m keen to see this summer) so perhaps this current trend more fully caters to my needs. Fundamentally, I feel the festivals are more fun because they cater to a wider variety of needs, so I can enjoy those acts I mentioned, and my friends can also have fun with names they better recognise.
The point Phil makes is a good one, if you don’t like what’s going on, change it yourself, utilize the power we all have as consumers to shape the way we consume media. The truth is, festivals can’t kill clubbing, just as a gun can’t kill a person without a gunman, it’s whether or not people want to go to the festivals, or the clubs. If the people are loving the festival scene enough to stay out of the clubs, then it’s the clubs that need to change, not the festivals, and why not be at the forefront of that change?
[ link ]Friday July 20th at the clubhouse in Canberra.
I’m supporting Alex Smoke, should come down
[ link ]The Clubhouse was one of those venues I was talking about, go there frequently
[ link ]I’ll hopefully be there for the Alex Smoke night, coming back from some time at my parents
[ link ]Yeah for sure man
I’m always blown away by the talent they can get in Canberra considering the small amount of people that usually turn up. A couple of weeks ago I saw Guy J play at clubhouse to maybe 50 people! the same with James Zabiela, Stephan Bodzin, Marc Romboy, Ahmet Sendil, I’ve seen all those guys in Canberra play to under 100 people.
[ link ]Interesting how the scene and cost of attendance varies. I’ve been fortunate to have only positive experiences in California. Voyeur in San Diego for example has no cover before 10 then $15-20, standard drink prices but I’m a moderate person si my nights tally up to $50 at most, including a meal.
Now I’m in New York and blessed with club cielo, funktion one system and no cover before 11 for Francois K “deep space” event on Mondays.
Sadly what prevents me from being an average clubber is work. Free time generally better spent finding ways to get behind the both instead.
[ link ]Children have prevented my wife and me from clubbing more recently, wouldn’t change a thing but it’s still a (bit of a) shame as we met in my club where I was DJing and she… told me my website was rubbish
[ link ]A better way to view all this isn’t to ask if fests are destroying clubs, but if the market is still interested in the “product” the clubs are selling.
Think about it. Why have people thrown raves? We can debate how “rave” these fests are, but I like to think the fests are the result of rave culture going “legit”. Anyway, I always have felt the reason people throw raves is because they want an escape from the clubs.
Look at things now. For the last 10 years we’ve been fed a steady diet of $20+ cover charges, top-40 music, overpriced cocktails, “proper attire”, booths, cliques, and bottle service. The public IMHO is saying they are sick of this when they choose the fests over clubs. I honestly see more 20somethings choosing bars now over clubs. The “product” has lost its favor with the market.
I would not worry too much. Eventually the weather will turn cold, and thus there will be no fests until next year.
However, I think this is the time that the club industry should reexamine its offering. Maybe it’s time to broaden the music, and give DJs more power. Maybe it’s time to rip out most of the booths and bring back dance floors as well as make “VIP” mean “VIP”, rather than anyone willing to pop $500 on a credit card.
“Change or die” is what businessmen say in other industries, and the club industry is no different. It’s time they change and redefine the product for the new generation…or die.
[ link ]As always, true words from D-Jam. Weekly clubbing died here in the UK at the end of the 90s because the club promoters got unimaginative.
[ link ]I dj at a local club and a few house parties here and there and the whole mainstream culture is definetly going under, I think the clubs usually get scared that they will loose there customers and to be honest they quite possibly will but when the word spreads they will definetly be attracting a whole heap of new customers. I’m in Australia and I think the clubbing scene is fine, the clubs that are missing out are just stuck in the past and most likely need better promoters. Places like fake, world bar and Chinese laundry are all examples of how clubs can thrive in Sydney. Also running an event back at my hometown Nowra with Redial headlining the night and have had massive feedback and am expecting to have a massive turnout, then I use the opportunity to give the locals the chance to showcase there skills. Clubs definetly just need to start thinking forward!
[ link ]Wahahaahaha but something bad turned out really nice!! Hahaha
[ link ]Around me, festivals feed bars and clubs. When the festival shuts down for the night, people move in droves into the surrounding bars and clubs. We generally view them as a plus for our business and it brings out demographics we don’t usually see – bigger age spectrum instead of just all 19 year olds…
[ link ]Good point! Also, I know of festivals that blur into club nights – ie “five arenas” in a custom venue that’s temporary for a weekend, but right there in the city.
[ link ]I am from Germany and when I read other people’s opinions here, I feel like I’m in the promised land of electronic music.
Take for example the “EDM” Festival I’m going to this summer:
http://www.sonnemondsterne.de/index.php?id=284&L=2
I like how besides the big artists on the main stage, Clubs (or Labels) host the smaller stages and tents to present their ideas and artists (Click on the venue header to see the details). And they even have a “Young Talent” contest, where you could earn a spot at the festival.
Another difference is, that festivals here are very much associated with camping and are treated more like a small holiday with friends. You wouldn’t stop going to clubs to finance a camping holiday, would you?
For me, and many others, festivals are not a replacement for clubbing but a welcome addition.
[ link ]Thanks Miec, it’s a good angle. I think here in Western Europe we’re a bit spoiled too, especially in the UK and Germany, where we “get” electronic music and have mature festivals that live alongside great club nights. Having said that, many festivals have been cancelled in the UK this year…
[ link ]Clubbing is in decline for years in my region. Popular clubs aren’t able to attract new customers…they close their doors, sorry cold hard facts. Tiesto is buried along time ago and Guetta is dying…don’t get many of such requests at my gigs…people want fun-music. Clubbing has become also too expensive for many people.
[ link ]Maybe I’m spoiled living in Los Angeles, CA but I feel these festivals have made club life BETTER here. Whenever these “DJs”/Producers are in town for an event you can most likely catch them at a local club, lounge etc. And most of the time it is FREE or no more than 10 bucks to get in. However, I have noticed the smaller “dive-bar” kind of spots are falling apart due to these higher end up clubs that book the big names. It’s all how you look at it though. Sometimes you want to get away from all the madness and just enjoy some good tunes and a nice cold beer. And not be in a crowded sweaty club.
[ link ]Festivals are all over the place, and I have to say that I don’t like to stand exposed, I prefer clubs. I am lucky to dwell in London, and the Ministry of Sound is absolutely amazing. I love Trance and Friday Gallery nights are truly unique. You can see top DJs playing for a bargain (~£13) and the sound system is in a league of its own. Since these are usually DJmag Top 100 DJs, you now what they play so no bad surprises. Also the MOS residents are a treat, Martyn Mytchel etc, so it’s always a nice change when queueing up for a drink!
[ link ]You’re very lucky ahab… MOS Gallery Friday is the Mecca of world Trance
[ link ]Does anyone remember the sunshine cafe in stoke on Trent. It was a big warehouse with a sound system in one corner and kept going till 7 or eight. It only served softdrinks apart from a guy called scouse who sold other stuff. You got all sorts of people there from students to 50 year olds still in their sansbury’s uniform. 50p to get in every one enjoying themselves. Back in 96. Great times
[ link ]I like the European model of festivals. Better talent, more of an age variance, and, as was posted by the German citizen, camping.
In the Netherlands, camping is a national art form, so it is amusing entertainment to view that spectacle along with the fantastic music.
In America, it’s just another excuse to sell energy drinks and pass tax writeoffs by big corporations.
That being said, there is one thing I enjoy about the festivals:
*no indoor smoking*. Believe it or not, the main club in my city that draws all the fantastic international talent allows tobacco smoking.
If you smoke, it’s your lungs, but I would rather not smell like a carton of marlboros after a night of clubbing.
As a result, I usually stick to the odd (and I do mean odd) non dubstep night at the other main club here, or roll the dice on the poor excuse for festivals in the States.
I don’t think that festivals are killing club nights, but they are certainly carving a nice chunk of revenue away from them.
[ link ]