Home Forums Digital DJ Gear Beat Jumping on the Pioneer CDJ-2000nxs2

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  • #2381801
    DJ Jammin Mike
    Participant

    I usually scroll through a track by beat jumping 4, 16 or 32 beats at a time when initially setting up my cue points. This saves a lot of time. I know that the NXS2’s have a one beat jump button to go either forwards or backwards but does anyone know of another way of doing it or if that is adjustable for other length jumps?

    #2383001
    Terry_42
    Keymaster

    Sorry we do not like to work with outdated equipment, so we have no CDJ testgear available and most clubs wont upgrade to NXS2.

    #2383561
    Todd Oddity
    Participant

    lol – I can’t believe there is a CDJ thread where Terry pops in to throw around the word “outdated!”

    Terry, I love ya man, but on this subject you keep passing off your strong bias as fact. Your views don’t even match with those from “head office” (see link) and injecting outdated into every conversation about CDJs, insulting those who use/own them, and trying to shut down discussion about them really isn’t helpful advice – which last I checked is part of mandate of this site. CDJs are digital DJing equipment. You may not like them, you may not recommend them to people looking to purchase gear, but if someone wants to ask a question about how to use them, that should be fair game.

    I’m no Pioneer fan and even I find it to be a little much…

    http://www.digitaldjtips.com/buyers_guide_review/pioneer-cdj-2000nexus/

    #2383851
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    First off: we carry the same name, but we are “independent” of head office, i.e. we don’t have to echo the sentiments of the DDJT team, per se.

    Second: While I understand the intricacies of being a moderator/keymaster here when you state an opinion, it is still that, an opinion. I’ll agree that when we (Terry/me) state something, it will carry more weight than when someone else states the same thing, so we need to be aware of that. Personally I know I am and even I have been (rightfully) called on that.
    We are also just human beings. The moderating part of my “job” (all volunteer!) here is about watching the posts and compliance with the guidelines, moving the odd post around to the correct forum and dishing spam trash, etx. Everything else is me as a fellow member/reader giving my two cents. Again, I understand that my two cents might have a higher monetary value being a moderator here.

    Third: I know Terry feels strongly about this and it is, in large part, fueled by empirical knowledge (i.e. he experienced a lot first hand). In his/our part of the world (Western Europe) it is absolutely true (I see the same happening in Holland as he is experiencing in Austria) that the popularity/acceptance of controllers is going up fast (we are way beyond a threshold in that sense) and simultaneously the CDJ is (slowly or faster) losing ground. Clearly this stuff was never ment for individual consumption. It was fixed installation club gear and mainstay rental gear. On both fronts you see a decline in setups available. I have talked to a few DJs who increasingly show up to clubs not having upgraded to Nexus/NXS2 gear but only kept their old CDJ/DJM setups as backup. And more than one rental organisation says they are no longer investing crazy money (with flightcases we are talking more than 8000 euro for an NXS2 set) for something that is requested/rented less.
    As such I have a tendency to agree with him on the days of CDJ/DJM setups moving quickly into a more niche area. Which eventually will lead to stuff becoming “outdated”. And it being outdated already in the sense that you can do way more for way less money by moving to controller/laptop DJ-ing.

    Fourth: While you CAN hook up a CDJ in either Midi or HID mode to DJ software, that still doesn’t make it a digital DJ controller, imho. All you get is a mediaplayer that uses the DJ software library instead of CD or USB-stick. NONE of the extra features are available on your CDJ. It still does what it has done for ages: Cue/Play/limited cue points (it took til NXS2 to get 8 cue point access!)/some loop features and that is pretty much it. No FX controls per deck (you can do a lot with the FX on the DJM mixer, but not as much as you can on an all-in-one controller), no performance pads, no dicers, slicers and such. No sample decks and the list goes on. Sure you can add NEONs or other controllers to the setup, but that brings back a lot of the objections to controllers, you’d need more space, more cables, etx. Also those additions don’t un-outdate (if such a word exists) the CDJs, it just adds a patch to an outdated system to give it some of the features standard in controllers. At the end of the day, even the NXS2 (which imho is desperately trying to cram stuff that isn’t there in hardware into the screen/button end of things) is just a media player. Very luxurious, high-end gear – no doubt, but definitely lacking lots of features a controller/laptop setup (especially with high-end controllers that still cost only half the price of a single CDJ) can offer.

    Fifth: We actually don’t have any gear on hand other than what we personally own. Between us we have enough stuff to be able to test a lot of features, especially in software. So we cannot comment on specific things like loop behavior on new CDJs (nor are we very interested to do that as we have our hands full with keeping up with all the developments in “true” digital DJ-ing, which by my definition means a form of software (be it iPad software or laptop software) combined with some kind of control. Phil Morse started with a laptop and keyboard shortcuts only digital DJ-ing. Nowadays we all gladly exchange keyboard for controller. But at the core is still software.

    Last: We try to answer all questions, at the same time it’s a forum. So, just like you are free to “defend” CDJs and help those with questions regarding them (by the way I am a strong believer that anyone should be able to use his/her preferred gear as that will bring out the best performance), Terry or any other reader is free to express his opinion on the subject.
    Most importantly my goal is to keep the forums a friendly place for everyone to drop his/her question for other readers to answer/comment on.

    #2383861
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    Interesting topic this remains …

    To clarify my earlier statement, I do believe CDJs are becoming/will be outdated gear in the same sense that Turntables are outdated. There can not be any discussion on the fact that turntables are day before yesterday’s gear. I know, I was there the year before yesteryear, when it was the only viable option. When CD-players came along (enter Denon) and then CDJs (enter Pioneer), turntables were essentially done and outdated, but they hadn’t disappeared and many a DJ held on for dear life to his SL1200 setup!

    The same thing is now happening (again IMHO, can’t stress that enough) to CD/Mediaplayers. There is by any objective standard very little left to favor the CDJ over a controller setup. Just like back in the day there wasn’t much to favor the TT over a CD(J). All of this is of course separate from any discussion about workflow and emotional attachment to a certain platform.

    I have always loved new stuff and still do. I never had a problem letting go of TTs in favor of CDs or CDs in favor of controllers. And who knows what will be next? By the same token, I CAN still play on vinyl (true or DVS), I CAN use CDJ/DJM setups (any brand, any combination) with either USB-sticks, midi/HID connected DJ software or, yes, plain old CDs.

    Regardless of a lot of emphasis on gear and software on these forums, we are clear on the fact that the true skill for any good DJ is “knowing what must come next”. And the gear, software and techniques you use to present that next track are secondary.

    I’ll finish with “advice” I have given here before and that is to use gear and software that YOU feel comfortable with. Adopt a workflow that works for YOU. Because only if you feel comfortable with the tools you use, will you be able to fully focus on the development of the skill of “knowing what must come next”.

    Keep on spinning everyone!

    #2383911
    Terry_42
    Keymaster

    Thanks for clarifying Vintage.
    Also it was not meant as an insult to CDJs (my comment that is) it is simple fact.
    Vintage and I we have limited access to equipment. Some companies are generous and lend us stuff to try out, some even donate a piece of equipment here or there (especially software) so we can give advise.

    Pioneer is not that forthcoming and I think the SX of Vintage is bought with his hard earned money and the only time I get on Pioneer gear is in clubs if I have time to fool around or in the store of a friend. Now since my friend saw sales of CDJs go down significantly (as he also sells to clubs) and he had to let go of his last Nexus setup with a loss, he does not stock them anymore (where as SX2s fly of the shelf and even the SZ does OK). So I get no playtime on NXS2 gear to date and as it is not my personal preference, I actually do not really care and will not go through serious length to get to test it (which I do for some controllers I am interested in). Also none of the local clubs I asked said they would upgrade, some are even considering selling their existing NXS gear now as long as there is still a used market looking for them.

    Now that does not mean anyone wanting to use CDJs is an idiot (if you get that vibe from me). I totally understand that some want to stick to what they learned, some do not care and some value it for sentimental reasons as they have been there for a long time. Hell I still have a single Technics deck, because I could not part with it 🙂 And about a few times a year I really enjoy going to my buddies home where he has 2 old Technics and an ages old Denon mixer and we play with our old vinyls.

    The only thing I feel very very strongly about is young DJs. Several young DJs get told by “old farts” that are single minded that if you want to be “pro” you need to invest in a whole NXS or now NXS2 setup. And a few of them actually buy into that myth and spend A LOT of money on such a setup, not even being able to DJ yet. Some even risk their credit, sell their cars or whatever, since they have been told this is “pro”. I saw such kids go broke and sadly most of the time I never see them again after their first audition (as I sometimes sit in on a friends club) as their DJing sucks badly, since they need to work 3 jobs to pay and have no time to practice. On the other hand I see people show up with digital setups I never heard of or thought of (last was a mix of old S2, K2 and Maschine all mapped to Traktor) and they blow me away creatively and I actually get afraid I am moving to slow. These kids are the main reason why I voice my opinion so loudly here and as we are independent, I can.

    If an older DJ that knows what he is doing still uses CDJs and wants to stick with it and his performances are good, then by all means he should go for it. I just hope he does not get washed down to the jobbers.

    #2384231
    DJ Jammin Mike
    Participant

    Wow, I didn’t expect my simple little question to invoke such hostility against CDJ’s. lol I just thought this forum would be a good place to get a technical answer that I was having trouble finding. I still haven’t received an answer. Todd left a link for a nice article about the original nexus which does have adjustable beat jumping capability. I don’t believe the NXS2 has it anymore. It just has a fixed one beat jump button forward or backwards.

    Now, I would like to jump in on the new subject of this thread since its my thread. lol I should tell you all that I use a Traktor Kontrol S8 with Traktor Scratch Pro 2 and I love it. I am not a big fan of CDJ’s at all. I also think they are outdated and I love all the things I can do with a controller.

    Allow me to explain The reason I bought two CDJ-2000NXS2’s, a DJM-900NXS2 and two XDJ-1000’s. (I bought the two XDJ’s simply because I ran out of money for two more NXS2’s. lol)

    I live in Chicago, IL USA. We have several clubs here where big names play at every week such as The Mid, Studio Paris, Shay, Cuvee, The underground and more. These clubs shell out big money to have big names play a several times a week.

    I would love to play at these clubs but I don’t want to show up with my little toy controller (and that is how they see it) with no place to put it because the booth is filled with cdj’s. The sound technician doesn’t want to bother hooking them up and will get pissed if I unhook any of their stuff. If they do allow me to plug in and I rock the house, they will not be impressed since I did it with a controller and heaven forbid I used the sync button for a moment while I blew their mind with some other amazing mixes I couldn’t have even imagined on the cdj’s.

    Most of these places have either original cdj-2000’s or cdj-2000 nexus’. I don’t know if they plan on upgrading to the NXS2’s or not but I couldn’t justify spending that much money and not getting the newest technology because that is how I am.

    I just want to be able to show up with my USB stick and be familiar with their equipment so that when I blow their minds, they will appreciate it. I don’t think they are all purists but they know that cdj’s are the standard and you are expected to be able to use them if you want to dj there. Who knows, maybe after I have gained their respect, I will ask them to plug in my controller and show them what is really possible in their booth. Maybe that will open up some more doors for controller dj’s.

    #2384351
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    It isn’t hostility for CDJs, most of us are still getting over the blisters from using them extensively for many, many years, after we got rid of the vinyl calluses. I think Terry said it well when describing that especially young, starting DJs get indoctrinated to aspire to owning CDJ/DJM gear as it being the mark of the true professional. While we both see lots of promising DJs who can totally rock the room with a 300 dollar controller. And they are not taken seriously by (at least a part of) the establishment.

    I have been a DJ for a long time and I have NEVER owned (or wished to own) CDJs. Just like I didn’t own a pair of SL1200s for a while at the beginning or my “career”. But I was always able to use the gear. Today, I really dislike having to work on CDJs/DJM and at the very least will hook them up to my laptop to at least not have to deal with the horrendous small screen/one-knob track selection of the CDJs.

    It seems we are a bit ahead of the curve here in Europe though. Major clubs like Ministry of Sound have already embraced controller DJs and their house techs are a-ok with you bringing whatever it is you want to bring.

    For some the gospel takes a while longer to sink in 😀

    I will stand with my conviction that anything you can do on a CDJ you can do on a controller (if not the other way around). And if you know how to handle a controller, you can handle a CDJ. Buying gear for an obnoxious amount of money to practice using a CDJ/DJM combo is a shame imho, as there really is no magic to CDJs. And getting any kind of return on investment is highly unlikely. If you (DJs in general, not you in particular as you already bought the kit) feel you need the hands-on experience outside the club to feel comfortable when you roll up to the club, you can rent a set a few times. Rent it in the low period (generally anything that’s not the weekend LOL) and you can probably make a nice deal (like keep it for 3 days while paying for 1 day).

    I am 100% positive that any serious controller DJ that has been at it for long enough to even qualify for playing at a club, will spend 15-30 minutes on a CDJ/DJM combo, scratch behind his/her ears and go “what the h*ll was I so worried about”. You’ll adapt your workflow (which you can practice on your controller) to accommodate the different gear and off you go.

    We’ll leave this topic open, in hopes of someone answering your original question, but for the rest I suggest we put this ever-lasting discussion to bed (again) with the conclusion that we can agree to disagree on the topic of CDJs.

    #2385151
    Mat
    Participant

    I have just bought some xdj700 and after 30 mins have enjoyed myself more than using my laptop and audio 6. Maybe i will get annoyed, and think they are outdated. time will tell

    #2385181
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    I can see how going from laptop only to any kind of control surface would make a huge difference!

    #2385331
    Mat
    Participant

    No i was using a kontrol x1 along with it. So never touched the laptop apart from.setting it up.

    #2385761
    DJ Vintage
    Moderator

    Ah, got it!

    #2385881
    Terry_42
    Keymaster

    Wow Chicago seems to be really behind in the rest of the US then.
    I was in the US a few weeks ago and gigged in high profile clubs in Phoenix, San Diego and LA.
    All had zero problems with controllers and house techs all very helpful.
    In all but one of those clubs they even seemed to expect that I bring something and the DJs playing sets before me also had controllers. The evening opener in SD was actually a relatively new guy which got his first chance to play in the big house and “only” used an S5 was doing awesome things with it.

    #2386691
    Phill Renyard
    Participant

    Some interesting reading on this thread, and opinions that I am in agreement with. However, getting back to the original question about beat jumps: I own a pair of XDJ1000s that have the beat jump buttons on the touch screen performance part, but if you’re wanting to jump further through the track (albeit in a non-quantised fashion)you can use the needle drop feature: in pause mode or in vinyl mode while pressing on the jog wheel you should be able to touch and drag along the waveform on the touch screen, just like on the touch strip on the older 2000 versions. This should work on the new Nexus 2 versions I think. Hope that helps.

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