Home Forums Digital DJ Gear Unable to sync pioneer xdj or cdj without sync

This topic contains 7 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Fredrik Bjaaland 2 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #2586551

    Jens Kühnemann
    Participant

    Hi!
    I played with a friend b2b a couple of times lately and he does not have rekordbox analyzed files so we have to play without sync. Wheras this is not too difficult we found that even having the cdj or xdj set at the same tempo and having a 100% tight mix the tempo starts to drift after a while. We had the problem on pioneer xdj 700, xdj 1000 mk2 and cdj 2000nxs2.

    So as I said beatmatching isn’t the problem (I can play with 1210 as well) but from my understanding having two tracks set at the same tempo should result of these tracks being absolutely the same tempo. Once they are alligned properly there shouldnt be even the slightest drift.

    The problem (apart from being just unrelieable) is that it is very hard to tell which one drifts into which direction or let me rephrase the misallignment needs to be audible to be able to tell which player drifts into which direction and obviously once I can hear them drifting the audience can as well.

    Is there any solution to this?

    cheers,
    jens

    #2586621

    Peter Lindqvist
    Participant

    Interesting. Would be great if you could shoot a video of a couple of tracks that can’t be beat matched, or that won’t stay beat matched once set. I’ve had and used almost all models of Pioneers club gear since the start (CDJ, DJM-500), and the one thing that kept me using Pioneer is the reliability and precision stability. I know that the XDJ-1000 had a hardware fault where the tempo could shift over long mixes, just like vinyl does, and this is acknowledged by Pioneer. For the models you used there’s no such problem.

    I have the 2000NXS2’s and I have only used them with Rekordboxed music, kind of pointless having them not doing that… :). Sync shouldn’t be used unless for creative mixing with 3-4 decks at the same time anyway, but I’ll shove a few tracks on to a USB stick and see how it works. The only time I’ve had problems with tracks not staying at a set tempo is when there’s a bad mp3, or wav-rip for that matter. The skip may be so small you can’t hear it just listening to the track, but when lined up in a mix, you will absolutely notice. If you can’t shoot a video, it would be great to know which tracks that were the worst, or just an example if there were many.

    By setting them at the same tempo, do you mean the same readings on the screens, or being sure by listening to them keeping the tempo for 30 seconds in the headphones. When using non RB’s tracks, the BPM readings of the player can be misleading, but at least accurate enough to show the nearest full beat. Down to the tenth of a beat, I’d just trust analyzed files. Then, using the pitch at 6%, will give you 4-5 frames per 10th of a second to adjust, which I find necessary when doing long, 2 min’s transitions playing house. I still have and use my old CDJ-1000Mk3’s for practice now and then, and the stay very stable over long transitions using CD’s. Can’t see why the newer models shouldn’t do the same. A colleague only using CD’s upgraded a while ago to the NXS2’s (no comments 😉 ) and he was over the moon last time I talked to him. He surely would have said something if he’d experienced any serious troubles like this. I’ll return after doing some testing with the results, good or bad.

    #2590821

    Todd Oddity
    Participant

    “The problem … is that it is very hard to tell which one drifts into which direction”

    Not to sound old & cranky, but this is why experienced DJs always tell newer DJs how important it is to learn mixing by ear. You should be able to hear the individual parts of the mix to be able to track down which part of it is drifting. The technology doesn’t always work as expected, and it is important to be able to fall back on the basics.

    Now, having said that, I suspect much like Peter does, that the issue is the non-analysed tracks you’re using. The BPM readers on those are just estimates, not a detailed read. Therefore if you’ve matched up the numbers across all of your decks, it doesn’t mean they are actually 100% spot on. Your options would be to take the time and analyse, or start getting your ears tuned up to be able to hear each track in the mix like DJs did pre-software.

    #2591101

    Jens Kühnemann
    Participant

    Hi,

    well as said I know how to beatmatch but this isnt the problem here.
    When using two tracks that are on 124 (not sure if any producer produces on tempo like 124.05 or something like this. I never did and never will) and setting the speed to 124 on each deck I would expect the tracks to run in sync for ever.

    However it really might be rekordbox or the absence of it. i tested two versions of the same track i finished yesterday just differing in subbass mixing and they run 100% in sync all the time without sync being set to on.

    i really have to check if this happens just with me playing b2b with my friend or also just me playing (all my tracks went into rekordbox, which is a nightmare by the way).

    if it happens just with my tracks i will do a video and post again.

    thanks for helping

    #2593451

    It’s not because Traktor, or Serato, or rekordboxsay that the track it analysed is 124 bpm that is is indeed 124 bpm. Double check the track with the TAP button to be sure. A grid has nothing to do with the actual BPM; it only marks the beats so it can line up the grid from another track to use Sync.

    Furthermore, some tracks are 124.0000bpm, some are 124.05 bpm but most programs only work with one digit after the comma and they show only 124 bpm of 124.0bmp but even though the difference between 0.00 and 0.05 is minimal, there is a difference meaning that both tracks will start to drift after awhile.

    Solutions:

    when not using sync, keep on checking and correcting as long as the mix is running, even when you think that the bpm of both track is identical. Since you can mix with vinyl, where drifting is inevitable, this can’t be to difficult.

    when using sync, make sure your grids are spot on, don’t rely purely on the analasys of the software.

    #2593461

    Jens Kühnemann
    Participant

    Hi,
    I think it might be due to some dodgy files ir analyzing. Using just my tracks it is running 100% in sync. Also the conversion from rekord buddy seems faulty as all tracks were gridded and tagged manually in traktor and the grid is off on several tracks. i am bot 100% sure about it or if i just had some files that were not done manually in between but well i suppose i just have to do all again in rekordbox.

    #2593561

    For Traktor to RekordBox conversion you might look at:

    https://sellfy.com/p/emUY

    #2596621

    Fredrik Bjaaland
    Participant

    As Todd say, the BMP reading is only an estimate if you haven’t analysed your tracks in Rekordbox. I see on my XDJ-RX that the BPM can variate 0.2%-1.5% between the analysed and non-analysed tracks. So you can’t trust the bpm readings. Also when analysed in Rekordbox, your tracks won’t always be synced 100%, so always trust your ears. 🙂

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