Where it all began: the Technics 1200 Mk 1 turntable.
There’s been a “will they, won’t they?” question hanging in the air for months now about whether Panasonic are finally going to discontinue the Technics turntable or not. Skratchworx recently wrote an open letter to the company to ask them to clarify what’s going on, but reports on DJ TechTools and letters to retailers seem to confirm that this time the DJ’s old friend is, indeed, finally being retired.
Even if this turns out to be another false alarm, surely the day when Panasonic finally retire the old workhorse is close. So in this article, we consider what this will mean for DJing, and for those of you who are a bit bemused by the fuss, look at why it’s such big news.
How we got to here:
A bit of history: The Technics SL1200 was first introduced in 1972, but it was in 1979 that the MK2 hit the streets, and this is the Technics turntable we all know. A 31 year run is not bad for a product, and the fact that it redefined the whole DJ scene is incredible seeing as it was never meant as a DJ product – it was aimed at the hi-fi market.
The Technics 1200 was never meant as a DJ product – it was aimed at the hi-fi market…
Yes, that’s true – this was never made for DJs! The things that made it so good in a DJ booth – a direct-drive motor that made scratching possible; the fact that it really was built to last; and crucially the speed control – were a happy accident.
So now that this happy accident has, it seems, run its course, let’s look at what the discontinuation of production will mean for the DJ scene and DJ culture:
1. The price of Technics turntables will rise
There will always be people wanting these. They ARE vinyl DJing. Nothing else has ever come close to knocking them off the top. Right now, you can buy them new from stock. But in a few years, they’ll start getting harder to buy.
There will be always be DJs wanting to play on “the real thing”, and if that’s you – if you’re a retro DJ, a vinyl junkie, or a hip-hop/scratch DJ who wants to use vinyl – now (or pretty soon) is the time to buy.
2. The popularity of DVS systems and software will start to wane
Programs like Serato Scratch and Traktor Scratch came about because DJs wanted to use their existing Technics to control MP3s. The next development was control CDs so you could use your DVS software and system with standard DJ CD players.
But as control vinyl/Technics become rarer and rarer, and all you’re left with is scratch software being controlled by CDJs, you’re getting very close to controllerism. Especially if the CD players start being used to drive controller software (see below). Don’t be surprised to see new, integrated versions of this software soon, and eventually an end to the Traktor/Traktor Scratch and Serato Scratch/Serato ITCH divide. Virtual DJ are already there.
3. The demise of Technics in DJ boxes will accelerate, and mixers will get more complex
Pioneer CDJ2000s will be the standard piece of equipment in DJ boxes. Nowadays many clubs already don’t have Technics turntables, but this will accelerate their demise. A DJ booth will mean a great digital mixer and two Pioneer CDJ2000s, plus room for a laptop or two and maybe a space for extra kit as well.
Pioneer is pushing its Rekordbox software, but the new versions of all the software will work with the Pioneers. Control will be via sound card-enabled digital mixers with samplers, looping and effects all built in – like the new Allen & Heath Xone:DB4 or the Pioneer DJM-2000, for instance.
You’ll be able to turn up at a club and plug your laptop into the mixer, and bang! Their equipment will control your software and music library. Want more controls? Then compact control surfaces like the Midi Fighter, the Novation LaunchPad or other tiny, easy-to-USB-into-a-laptop surfaces will be your answer.
“I don’t miss vinyl and I don’t use CDJ’s, I have 2 computer systems with me.” says Paul Van Dyk. “One is full with all my material, the other one has a lot of software synthesizers installed and I have mini keyboards with me, where I can play a lot of things live, I have a mini controller & I have a custom made mixer.”
4. Manual beatmatching skills will continue to die out
With the closest to an old-skool DJing set-up now being two CDJs, the idea of not having a BPM counter on your kit will become obsolete. DJs will learn to mix by matching BPMs then at most fine-tuning.
DJs will learn about beats and bars through beatgridding and looping, not through old-fashioned beatmatching.
The skill of beatmatching “blind” will become a specialty. With the turntable out of the picture and DVS systems dying, technology will naturally ensure that all DJs have the ability to sync music at the touch of a button, whatever they do. DJs will learn about beats and bars through beatgridding and looping, not through old-fashioned beatmatching.
Is it a new Ableton control surface? Erm, no, it's an abacus.
5. New DJs will stop aspiring to “one day play on decks”
We hear it all the time at Digital DJ Tips. “I have got Virtual DJ on my laptop. I want to get a controller soon, then progress to CDJs, and finally I want to be a “real” DJ spinning Serato Scratch or even real vinyl.”
It’s understandable because decks are held in such esteem, but to us it’s like an accountant aspiring to stop using his spreadsheet and go back to his calculator, then an abacus, and maybe one day do it all by hand again!
The war is over, the battle is lost. Vinyl is dead. In a very short time, nobody will care any more. As we readjust our aspirations, our bright digital future will come more into focus – and just to repeat, it does not involve two record decks any more.
6. The fascination with turntablism will grow
…in the same way that we’re fascinated by World War 2 bombers, or old cars, or sixties fashions, or Victorian toys. The Technics era is over – and a phase of DJing has just had the door closed on it for good. It is already history – and the music, the skills, the culture, are all for the first time becoming something we’re moving on from.
DJing with Technics may end up being something you see in boutique bars or kitsch clubs as a curiosity.
Therefore cool retro DJs with a box of vinyl and equipment from the same time period will become kitsch novelties. As new generations of DJs arrive who’ve never heard of Technics, they’ll be curious to see what it’s all about when vinyl DJs spin in boutique bars, cafes, shops and clubs.
I guess these DJs will use nice old scratch mixers and headphones from the same period, too, for added authenticity.
7. An old generation of DJs will finally hang up their headphones
There are a LOT of DJs of a certain age out there who love to whinge. They say things like: “It was great in ’88!” They whinged when CDs came along. They whinged when laptops arrived. They whinged when MP3s started being played in clubs. They whinged when Ableton DJs stopped manually beatmatching everything. They whinged when digital technology spawned the mash-up scene.
They whinged when CDs came along. They whinged when laptops arrived. They whinged when MP3s started being played in clubs…
The only thing that kept them going was the existence of a hallowed “right” way to do things. They pointed to “genuine” DJs, using Technics and “keeping it real”. Well, Technics sales had already dropped 95% in 10 years before this announcement. DMC – the last bastion of vinyl – has admitted digital DJing for the first time in what will surely be their first move towards further innovation or inevitable obsolescence.
And now, the equipment “real” DJs use – a Japanese hi-fi record deck that DJs took on as their own because there was nothing better out there – has finally become a footnote in history. With a disgusted shake of the head, a lot of the old school will finally call it a day.
Epilogue
So – goodbye to the Technics 1210. I bought my pair when I was 23, having had belt drive cheap decks since I was 15. I sold them in 2004 and switched to Virtual DJ, my first step on a road that has given my love of DJing a massive, massive new lease of life and led me to the job I love so much today.
To me, digital means DJing has never been so much fun. But I still have two boxes of vinyl that I’ll never get rid of. I loved my Technics. I’m sad to see them go. But I said my goodbyes nearly 7 years ago. As have most superstar DJs, evident from the quotes I’ve put throughout this article, which are representative (even if deadmau5′s is a little thoughtless and uninformed).
Now let’s look to the future: there are more manufacturers making more equipment that’s actually designed for DJs to use than ever before. Times are good. Let’s pay our respects… and move on.
Now go to:
How to Add Digital DJing to Your Existing Vinyl or CD Set-up
Another Nail In The Coffin For Vinyl As DMC Goes Digital
5 Reasons Why Digital DJing Beats Vinyl
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So true. So many times I’ve been told that I’m not a real DJ because I dislike playing on vinyl.
[ link ]For me, the idea of just playing tracks and doing little in between is so outdated. DJing isn’t about playing tracks anymore. It’s about performance. Which is why Ableton has come out of the studio and set up camp in the booth. It’s why the new Traktor has 8 sample & loop decks AND a seperate loop recorder alongside your traditional two track decks.
To anyone who thinks ‘real’ DJs only use vinyl, just look up the top 100 DJs for 2010 and see how many use vinyl. Most probably did (once apon a time) but you won’t see them touch it now.
djing is about playing tracks give or take. If you wanna mess about with looping or mashing shit up man you better be playing your own tracks otherwise your just a gimboid who cant mix or produce music.
[ link ]Depends how well you do it, I’d say.
[ link ]Loads of interesting points made there. Having DJed for 17 years, I find myself in the middle of a cross-roads whereby throughout the years, Ive jumped onto & then sold off more ‘advanced’ Pioneer mixers, CDJs & external effects unit & samplers full of bells & whistles in favor of hunting down Urei, Bozak & custom-made mixers with discrete circuitry & clean signal paths that focus on the being built like tanks, providing high end sound quality & let me focus on music more because DJMs all began to feel a little cliche’d & CDJs just didnt feel like DJing to me any more. That said, I do love the new possibilities that new technologies have brought, I didnt like the feel of plastic CDJs etc. Ive been on Traktor Scratch for over 4 years & besides the odd WAV here & there, have pretty much gave up on buying from digital online stores & returning to digging for vinyl in shops again (albeit online a lot of the time!), purely because its how I prefer to buy music. In the digital era, a lot has changed. Your 12 month advance white labels are now in the form of unknown, unsigned artists on Soundcloud dishing out downloads or re-edits & so on, but for me exclusivity is still digging for vinyl. I do want to rip it all into Traktor though because I just love the capabilities of being able to completely edit & effect stuff in a way that just isnt possible with vinyl alone, but thanks to DVS, its all possible on SL1200s so for now at least, Ive found a very happy middle ground that embraces both.
[ link ]Great piece, but I couldn’t agree less with the DVS part. The demise of Technics doesn’t mean that people will stop using the gear they already have. Nor does it mean that people won’t either hunt down second hand units or pick up a pair of the readily available alternatives. The death of one brand of turntable doesn’t signal a shift to controllers. People are just too invested in software like Scratch Live (certainly in the US) to simply turn their back on turntables and jump technology.
I do however believe that existing turntable manufacturers will start to reexamine their current offerings and update as necessary. The death of Technics is the ideal time to jump on that market. It won’t be a massive uplift in sales for them, but I’d say the turntable is a very long way from totally dead.
[ link ]You had me until the deadmau5 quote
[ link ]Fair point, it certainly won’t happen overnight. But the mental shift? That just might.
One thing though – Technics may be just one brand of turntable, but isn’t it “one brand” in the same way that Google is just “one brand” of search engine?
[ link ]Yawnnnnn, not this again.
This is based on the same letter getting passed about from someone at Panasonic Australia, nothing else.
No one at Panasonic Japan, USA or UK (arguably the 3 largest markets) have confirmed or denied anything.
I’m not saying the SL1210 is not dying off, or dead already, but this sort of reaction, whether its true or not, is ridiculous.
To say that DVS systems will get discontinued, seriously?????? So if 1 make of turntable isn’t available, thats it is it? Serato and Native lose their biggest products?! Daftest thing I’ve read.
Maybe you should research why there is a ‘divide’ between the timecode and non timecode versions of Traktor and Serato? It’s based on royalties, simple.
Firstly, all the existing SL’s aren’t going to just stop working either, they’ll probably go on for years,the great reliability might even be a contributing factor to the demise of the deck.
Second, there are other decks out there, Stanton and Vestax make some very viable alternatives.
So just because you won’t be able to by a Technics deck in the future, doesn’t mean you can kill off vinyl or DVS systems or so many other DJ’s who like playing on this format.
My biggest concern is if the club don’t have Technics, what are DJ’s going to rest their controllers on!?
[ link ]It’s more than that though isn’t it? How many top-grossing DJs actually use a tone arm and a piece of plastic, Serato/Traktor or not, to control music nowadays? It really is very few. They may be using CDJs to control DVS software, but that again is an anomoly of the way things have panned out. That’s the shift.
The discontinuing of the product is just a symptom of it.
“My biggest concern is if the club don’t have Technics, what are DJ’s going to rest their controllers on!?”
[ link ]Gonna have to go with Gizmo on this one. I’ve heard more than one person say the Str8.150′s were better than 1200′s anyway.
[ link ]Great read. It will take some time to “really” retire the turntable as a whole but the idea of using a vinyl system will slowly die due to convenience and experimentation with the possibilities that controllers offer.
Once systems like the NS7 become more cost effective and common, it will end the DVS system altogher. I would imagine that no other DJ manufacturers are anywhere near vested in turntables as Technics were and I do not imagine that they will continue to do so when controllers are becoming more popular every day.
[ link ]wasn’t Q-Bert the top rated DJ this year? and Z-Trip last year? I haven’t seen someone use CDJ’s in years, since Serato became the norm.
So this sounds like a big divide between the US and Europe. Certainly all of the popular US DJ’s (who make tons of $$ by the way, and get booked in Europe to headline all over also, just as often as any of the Paul Van Popular Euro DJ Guys get booked over here) are using Serato. DJ AM set that standard years ago, and even though he passed last year (RIP), that standard isn’t going anywhere for probably a decade. All of the Vegas/NYC/LA/SF DJ’s use Serato, and even if Technics do become discontinued, they’re front and center at every popular US club, and were built to last.
[ link ]Interesting… but not as clear cut as all that surely? After all, deadmau5 is Canadian, and my (admittedly limited) experience of Vegas was in a club with a DJ using Serato… with CDJs. You could be right, we may be looking at a decade… but the argument is that this has just accelerated things.
[ link ]Ooooh you’re a provocative little scam aren’t you Phil?
I suppose dismissing Technics as just another brand is perhaps a tad glib and flippant. But ultimately that really is all it is. Granted it has dominated the scene but people have put it on a pedestal, almost to the denial of the existence of other brands. But other decks do exist – some incredibly good ones too, and I hope that they now get a deserved look in and will become blips on previously blinkered radars.
[ link ]deadmau5′s comment is thoughtless and uninformed? What about Tiesto with ‘for DJing, vinyl is a nightmare’? For my sense of hearing, Tiesto is a nightmare. Why can’t we have an article about Tiesto getting discontinued?
Great article, great site.
[ link ]Nice article. I pretty much agree with everything you say.
I don’t see the time code DJs giving that up immediately but I don’t see it as being around in a few years. I would back controllers and touch-sensitive control panels.
[ link ]In 1992 at my college radio station they talked about getting rid of Technics, because all new music was coming in on C.D.’s. I am just happy that the turntable made it this long after these years and we can always look forward to special rerelease run for 5 times the money for diehard old schoolers. I, my self, stopped bringing them out to gigs two years ago.
[ link ]Phil great article, sad but true. So Phil what were the vinyl in your two record boxes that you kept from all the other vinyl you had collected over the years? & why did you keep those?
[ link ]Hey John. It’s actually in a friend’s spare room in the UK, but from memory it’s: Acetates I was given by other DJc, DMC DJ-only vinyl that cost me a fortune, cherished white labels, tunes from my girlfriend (now wife) that were presents… sentimental stuff and cool as f*ck vinyl you’d have to be crazy to sell, basically.
[ link ]Had to add that you took the Deadmau5 quote out of context. That rant was a swipe at the DJ culture in general and (despite his knee-jerk-reaction of an apology) I’m struggling to forgive him for it.
[ link ]Here’s the quote taken from Wikipedia:
“It puts me to fucking sleep, to be quite honest; I don’t really see the technical merit in playing two songs at the same speed together and it bores me to fucking tears and hopefully, with all due respect to the DJ type that will fucking go the way of the dinosaur, I’d like them to dis-a-fucking-pear! It’s so middle man, they’re like fucking lawyers! You need them, but they’re fucking cunts. God bless them, they’re my number one customer right, so I’m not gonna go dis every fucking DJ. But to say you become this massive, “up on a podium” performer by playing other peoples productions, at the same speed as someone else’s productions and fading between the two of them, I don’t get it…”
Kinda makes a mockery of what we’re all working towards, doesn’t it?
I have to say that I agree with Deadmau5 on his statement. I’ve been spinning vinyl/DVS for about 8-10 years and producing on hardware and software for 10-12. The massive DJ egos that I’ve run into over the years are reason enough to agree with what he’s said.
I actually did a live PA at a party once, complete with an MPC2000 and numerous other samplers/synths and overheard some D-bag DJ saying “what’s up with this sample bullshit?” So after the set (which went really well with the crowd,) I asked him why he was whining. He said, “Well, it’s cool and all that you’re up there with your gear, but it’s all about the vinyl.” Someone probably forgot to tell the idiot where vinyl comes from, and it’s that kind of attitude from DJs that I’m very happy is going the way of the dinosaur.
Being a producer (admittedly small-time and slightly more than hobbyist-level,) I have to agree that much more with Deadmau5. It takes a ton of effort, soul, energy, and time to make a good track. DJs put in their effort as well, but they’re just playing it back 90% of the time with very little modification. However, I’ve noticed that more and more DJs are finally getting into the production game and incorporating their tracks in their mixes, which is GREAT.
I look forward to the day when being a DJ will be more synonymous with being a producer or remix artist and vice-versa, not used interchangably in TV/print media. With the rise of controllers, DJs have more time on their hands behind the decks, turning their sets into more of a performance than a beatmatching demonstration. I want to see this expand an evolve, and it looks like finally the old ways are starting to make way for the new. The genres of music that are by nature evolutionary and progressive will finally have some room to breathe.
[ link ]I completely endorse that last statement. deadmau5 has got a lot of mileage out of being a competent beat programmer with a good sense of how to play the music industry lottery. Let’s put what he does in perspective shall we? In the end anyone who invests the time can turn out beats/ become a competent computer programmer who works with sound. As much as I don’t like DJs who think they are god because they can beat mix, I don’t have any respect for producers who start getting delusions about their own worth and standing in the big picture. deadmau5 will go the way of the dinosaur with a bit of luck and a degree of inevitability!
[ link ]I think what he’s saying is that production is becoming more important for DJs, and in that I kind of agree with him – the top of the pile ought to be able to make music too. Maybe no need to write off 25 years of DJ culture in one go to make that point, though.
[ link ]Ok, I read this this morning and didn’t have time to respond, and now have a full days worth of opinion to vent, and after discussing with others at music college today, i know I’m not alone on this viewpoint
[ link ]…..I agree with the comments from ed2000 and strangematter, and phil, I understand the need to be diplomatic, but dedmaus is just an arrogant cheesemonger of formulaic beats and wears a silly helmet to make his act sellable, his only redeeming feature apart from some studio skills is that he also commented that his own music isnt really what he’s into….honestly at least can be respected…
I also disagree with you on the vinyl thing, and its kinda sad to see the value of vinyl in more than one way being deprecated on here….
A slab of vinyl is a sign that someone has put enough value on someones ideas to turn it into something physical which will last and costs to produce..in this digital age with tracks thrown at you left right and centre online, its nice to know that if you go to a store for vinyl you’ve less choice, and as far as anti piracy goes, apart from your previous article link on how to do that im sure its not common….I sold all my trance collection that i collected from 1999-2005 before i went travelling…300 tracks at 3quid each…how much did you get for the content of your hard drive when you deleted tracks in your clearout? Im assuming that most of your deleted collection were unpaid for promos but in the vinyl days these could have more value than later big label releases….see where im going…I think it will be a very sad day if vinyl does disappear, but im confident it wont…
Another gripe i have with the post vinyl age, is that back in the day, it took real work for a dj to hunt down records…I remeber hearing stuff on pete tong and it taking a year and a half to get a copy as it took ages for tracks to go to release and get pressed, and you know what…If a tracks good enough to remember after hearing a promo 18 months previous, you can bet it’ll go down well on the floor…Plus when cdj’s became more common, the amount of dj’s that just stopped paying for music and started pirating left right and centre devalued the scene somewhat, as all of a sudden everyone had the same tracks and the money that previously fuelled the smaller dance labels and good distributors vanished….how exactly was that digital revolution good for anyone that valued music i dont know, only made life better for freeloaders..
Next point, even removing DMC championships from the equation, one of the signs of a good dj in the past was fluidity of set, lack of clanging mixes, dancefloor understanding in when to drop what tune etc…when you add traktor and itch and sites like the hypemachine etc…wheres the work?
Dont get me wrong I’m a full digital convert and i will be selling some of my vinyl….but I’ll be keeping every record ive ever put in a set and i’ll keep buying new slabs from underground producers and keep the scene alive because i love it…
I believe that Digital is the way forward, and hopefully there’ll be a sea of music available to confuse and dishearten the unpassionate dj’s out there and dj’s can still become tastemakers and Im going to put as much effort in mastering this as I did to learn to 3 deck mix, scratch, juggle, live remix, and not lift the wrong needle off when more trolleyed than i realised playing in a club on the other side of a planet carrying 11kgs of vinyl and a kaoss pad…..Hopefully the decline of vinyl wont stop music makers and dj’s from putting in this kind of effort in the age to come…
And to those digital purists of you that dont really value the skills of a really good vinyl dj because you never understood it or pushed hard enough to really master vinyl manipulation and get to the enjoyable part…theres a lot more to djing than just beatmatching…
Phew…i feel a lot lighter now so will cut off this rant now, and hope that both vinyl and digital djing lives on for a long time
and if not…Well at least I’ll have some quality chunks of historical plastic to leave to my grandkids if i ever sprog….
catch you later and i’ll look forward to reading some rebuttals…
as a footnote, those 300 trance on vinyl i sold for 3 quid went to a very good home and are well loved, and i may buy them back one day if i’m rich cause most of them are going for 20 quid or so on discogs and ebay so thats a sign that the love of vinyl still lives on at least..;)
[ link ]I seconded what Gizmo said. I firmly believe that every DJs wanted to be old school once in a while although creativity can be attained more through new technology. Nevertheless of the “real thing,” we should welcome the new generation of djing. All for the betterment, let’s be united.
[ link ]yup me too on the gizmo train of thought, but didnt want to rant too much, the technics is a volvo of the djing world, comfortable, safe and reliable, but you wouldnt take it to a car show of enthusiasts…i ditched mine for vestax pdx 2000′s after learning my first year on technics, but found them too limiting with 8% pitch..
P
[ link ]so ibought the pdx 2000 in 2001 and at first i thought i’d made a horrible mistake as the vestax had a completely different feel, but a week later was loving it messed around with reverse play & pitch control and could suddenly make all new sets from the same records and it felt like using a scalpel rather than a shovel,so i recorded a mix and gave it to a certain dj on this site in the dj booth and got good feedback, the next week….and re-energised my mixing the same way traktor is now…..technics sat on there arse and raked in the cash for so long they missed the boat….and those decks are still in use now, at he same guys house as the trance records and still perfectly fine 9 years on…so reliability not an issue…now on pdx2300′s since 2005 which have survived 2 years in storage while travelling without any issues and are fine now…I hope people embrace the digital vinyl systems along with controllerism and learn to beat juggle and scratch along side sync mixing….
bring it on people…
Hey Penance, many thanks for the reply.
I think we can all agree deadmau5′s comments are arrogant and not thought out – I think he’s admitted as much himself.
OK, digital. Remember when digital book readers first came out? I was scathing. Fancy having a handheld computer to read books on! What’s wrong with paper and ink? Then someone bought me one. Now, I can’t believe we chop trees down to print the things. Everyone should be buying their books digitally in my view! No waste, no wait.
My thinking is exactly the same on vinyl. What a waste! I personally do not want to wait 18 months for a tune. I’d rather spend my time learning how to mix the stuff creatively. Forgetting piracy for a second (which I don’t condone), I personally feel that if everyone’s got the same tracks, great! Now let’s see who can perform them with some panache, who can bring something to the party that isn’t a few closely guarded remixes their mates gave them on acetate.
Regarding quality, there was plenty of utter rubbish pressed onto vinyl. At least with digital it doesn’t waste resources for people to find out it’s not worth keeping.
I guess MP3s offend the collector in people… and I again, I can only speak for myself, but I’m simply not a collector, in fact I’m the opposite. I like minimalism. I was always pruning my vinyl collection – at least now I can just remove MP3s from my “current” set and they sit in some backwater on my hard drive, out of sight and not taking up anything other than virtual room.
I really don’t believe that digital has taken the skill out of DJing, either. Beatmatching isn’t really skillful, it’s just practice. Just let a machine do it and get on with doing something more creative with your time. Sets that flow are nothing to do with beatmatching, they’re to do with programming and a love of music. Great records played in the right order. You can mix insanely smoothly without ever doing a beatmix.
By the way Penance just listened to your first SoundCloud set, it’s awesome! DJ Shadow would be smiling if he could here it… http://goo.gl/KJ5hn
[ link ]wow, just got a compliment after disagreeing with you, very magnanimous of you Phil
good rebuttal as well :~) as far as dj shadow, its good enough for me that you enjoyed listening to it, the mix was inspired actually by z-trip when i set up his decks and soundsystem for a gig at the good vibrations after party when working for a dj academy in oz that also rented out systems….He travelled with a massive flightcase of vinyl and mashed up metallica with allsorts of records that were never meant to go together tempo or key wise and rocked it near flawlessly for 90 minutes with a pioneer efx1000 and efx500, while i had to crawl around under the setup fixing the system up after it had been mauled by venue staff while we were at the festival… I really had no idea who he was really, didnt recognise the name at first and wasnt til i was getting him into a cab to his hotel at the end i remembered seeing him in scratch the movie….the guy was so not a massive ego idiot like deadmaus, and the skill and professionalism of the guy was standard setting…
[ link ]p.s just found you on soundcloud too, you should re-do some of your old Tangled mixes with your digital setup and get them up there!
they really were a massive part of my learning curve on set programming and flawless blending at the right point, and if i remember rightly you always managed to mix in key without software back then and keep long mixes together without syncing better than your compatriots….I remember the time Guy Ornadel was too scared to play with broken monitors and went home and you rocked on regardless without issue..and that along with seeing you catch 13stacked beer bottle tops snatched from your elbow at an after party once gained you the respect which makes me read your blog now
Again…. without some limiting factors you cant always tell the real deals from the Deadmaus’s and Guy Ornadel’s……
some great debates on here so far….what can we all fight about next?
p.s. i have a new mix on mixcloud if people are interested too;)
Vinyl is Toast.
[ link ]CD is soon to be Toast.
Here’s a revelation…. While buying a kontrol x1 about a month ago,the bloke in the DJ equipment shop reckoned in his opinion jog wheels in general wether it be on a cdj or timecode will be obsolete and a thing of the past. After a month with the x1 I can kind of see his point.
[ link ]BTW before anyone gets on my case about “not being a proper DJ” I have always played on 1200′s.
The funny thing is the one thing I miss about vinyl djing is spending a saturday afternoon in the record shops sifting through the boxes and having a chat with other like minded doing the same. Internet forums are alright but doesn’t beat a good face to face chat.
I do enjoy getting tons of music (mp3s) for next to nothing but I also miss the human interaction at record stores.
[ link ]@amuzia I have a similar belief. I think the era of jog wheels will be around longer than CD but the CD will be gone. Eventual software will work so smoothly that you will be able to decide when you want your next track to automatically sync with the current track or tracks. There will be no such thing as beatmatching. You will simply click that you want it to come in on the 4 and bam it does. the creativity will be in the effects and the uniqueness of the mixes but even so this will be hard to be different. Look at top DJ’s today vs say your local superstar. The local guy is only different because he only has access to Beatport and the other sites and forums around while the popular big money DJ is getting tons and tons and tons fo tracks sent to him from labels, other DJ’s and all of us who are trying to make it in production. These guys have more tools at there disposal thus making them more unique.
[ link ]Not saying the turntablist will die. He will live on forever, just in limited form.
Sorry guys, but I’m part of the choir that isn’t too saddened to see the 1200 retired.
First off, I agree that there will be other brands then that will step up and try to become #1. Might even men new innovation in that sense. Imagine a turntable with USB output so you can hook it up to be a midi control? So you can do vinyl and audio, or midi it with software.
Perhaps we’ll see things built to be “battle style” for the turntablists. I know it’s been done, but I always felt Technics should have made a battle-oriented table.
I bought my 1200s back in 1993, and I’ll always praise how well they’ve held up for over 17 years! I just think though that with technology moving forward, the idea of a turntable is merely clinging on to old, outdated ideas. In the span if most things DJs do in the clubs, bars, etc…the things you can only get out of a turntable is a very minimal thing.
We can praise the turntablists, but in the grand scheme of DJing, how many of those guys are playing regular gigs compared to the millions who aren’t turntablists.
When I went digital with Final Scratch years ago, I said goodbye to audio vinyl and welcomed the cost-effectiveness and versatility of MP3. When I bought a MIDI control a year ago to use for gigging, I fell in love with the space-saving features and ease of use. My 1200s are now packed away, and I only pull them out when I have an old piece of vinyl I need to make digital.
I don’t knock those who love their turntables, but I will say the amount of turntable DJs compared to CD and midi DJs is diminishing. I got off tables simply because I grew tired of walking into venues where the turntables are broken or malfunctioning, and I still think many DJs are fools to drag out their expensive 1200s to a club just so they have a solid pair of tables to work with. That’s the club’s responsibility.
“Regular club patrons don’t respect laptop DJs”
Yeah…I hear stories of the people who boo the laptop DJ, but they’ll get older, retire from the scene, and replacing them will be new people who could care less.
“What’s the point now if the software will beatmatch?”
Last night I stayed later at work to finish up a mix I made with Torq and a used X-Session Pro I leave in my office for these occasions (I normally use an Xponent). Believe me, Torq is known to have a very solid beatmapping system, but I still ended up with mixes I had to do manually because the tracks themselves were not arranged well or the beats were not fully and mathematically perfect (their sampled loops were not solid).
Beatmatching and especially sound blending will never vanish from the DJ spectrum. I have yet to see any software do it perfect on their own. In my eyes, this is the time that DJs need to think less about rotating platters, and more about what’s coming out of the speakers…because most of what’s being put out there for us to play is sheer garbage.
1200s will be around for a bit, since there are loads of used ones for sale (probably why Technics sales slumped), and the turntablists and other die-hards will keep it up. I also think some other company like Stanton will rise up to take on the top spot, and thus “wheels of steel” will simply apply to another model.
Let’s face it, DJs were using other tables in the beginning. Did we cry when the MK1 was gone? Or the M3D?
Love what you do, but remember to move forward, because most die-hard vinyl purists I know are realizing they are a minority in the grand thinking of music in clubs and parties.
[ link ]Whoa Phil, dont bet on paper books going anywhere annytime soon, People will always want to hold the actual book in their hands.
[ link ]And it’s not like the turntable isn’t available anymore, plenty of people still make them.
I love to 1210s and i love my CDJs but comparing the two is kinda like comparing say, driving a car and riding a motorbike. Both are forms of transport and both will get you too where your going but still they are totally different. So when it comes to using software to do a mix its kinda like getting into the jensons flying car, you can tell it just to take you where you wanna go, or you can take the controls yourself and really have some fun, do some loops the loops fly upside down for a bit an pull some 360s. But i know i will get bored, and then im gonna wanna burn sum good old fashioned rubber! That why ill never sell my technics.I dj cause i enjoy it in all its forms, if im in my kitchen or in a club. Thinking about it we will have to stop using the term “DJ” wont we? How about MM? (music manipulater) or BP? (beat programmer or button pusher) I think over the next decade we will see a return to vinyl. We will have the big names doing special “vinyl only” sets and club nights.Dont underestimate the power of retro, especially in the dance music scene, its practically built on looking backwards as much as it is pushing boundries and moving forwards.
[ link ]well… i always thought djing was about seeking/discovering/collecting records… now i see i wasted all these years…
today anyone can become so-called “DJ” (anyway, where’s that “disc” part from “disc jockey” word in your disc-less digital proffesion? oh,you must be “digital jockey” then!stupid me!)You can be dj too – just download software and focus on sweeping through free/cheapish mp3′s just like billions of people do every evening. then prepare so-called set, which is basically playlist, turn it on at club and hey-ho! of course it’s oversimplified – most digi-jays also put their tunes in certain order and then mix them/process by sampling and looping+dropping some fx on-top – i don’t know exactly, did digi-djing just few times on my pc, for fun, out of curiosity, to compare. felt like playing some new game (quite boring anyway) rather than playing music.
it is simple. f**ing simple dj-ing is. is it vinyl, cd or laptop. although, the more modern djing, the easier it becomes. playing vinyl – carrying it from home, digging through box and searching for tune in darkness of booth, then beat-matching and preparing for mix can be hard and time-wasting! i admit it might not the easiest thing. but this is what it takes.
on contrary mp3s – it’s browsing pressing ‘sync’ button cue-ing (if mp3 not cued at home), looping and ‘mixing’. sounds easier, isn’t it?
you say digi-djing is “creative” – it gives you much more time to re-create tune while you play – but is it what djing is about?don’t you think that producers should be creative, dj’s rather handy with tunes and crowd?
you might like it or not – djing is pretty limited job – unless you are turntablist, but this is proper skill and lot of work to get there – or digi-dj – with program doing all this job for you.
all this being dj is not just about mixing. it is/was rather about collecting and sharing your beloved tunes with crowd – enjoying and a little bit of showing new stuff/educating people. about sparing dough to get new record and wasting hours in shops digging through boxes full of shit records to get those good ones. about selecting.
it is funniest and most time consuming hobby i ever had.
is it the same now? it’s all gone “virtual” – searching, listening, buying, mixing and playing…
djing got cheap and easy and knowing how much heart, time and cash i loaded into this, i refuse digi-djs as clubber and as dj.
of course as much as you’ve put into it you’ll get back, so dear digi-djs – one day it will be your turn to disappear like all those dinosaurs you call us vinyl djs – it’s matter of years there won’t be need for djs at all – computer with auto-software-dj is cheaper and never gets too self-centred like that ‘dead rodent’ and other “super duper dj stars” no matter whether they are digi or vinyl. and as much virtual your tunes are, you’ll be. mine are physical and i am.
put some more into the topic i.e. digital piracy vs labels, clubs dying-out, technics – and we’ll all end up as very virtual dance music scene very soon…
now, back from this virtual place to reality;)
[ link ]Vinyl is fading, but with the top Djs here in US and speaking from experience at times it does get confusing on this topic. Example Mr.deadmau5 at a event I remember in Las Vegas(Ztrip and others even Aoki have still used turntables) at a top club deadmau5 was spinning vinyl cross fading etc… Only thing exciting was his mouse head, but if you were there to dance to good music it really didn’t matter. There are other turntable companies out there too, but being on tour myself I do notice most Djs still using Techs with time code and companies making new needles for Techs etc…. . I really don’t think downloading digital software makes instant Djs either. It is the same when turntables where king and everyone was running around saving money to get two turntables/mixer/etc… Shyt recently I covered SEMA Auto Show 2010 in Las Vegas and at the DUB after party at the Palms with T-pain(the club RAIN etc… I believe CDJ) too the booths at SEMA,some of the Djs had Techs and some had CDJs. So, I don’t think DVS with Techs, time code etc,… is going anywhere anytime soon. Can only speak from experience with working around major venues and events and not just basic Tuesday night at the club where there is only a CDJ system/kit(not that there is anything wrong with small events). For controllers, I’m impressed to see digital controllers showing up at major venues even in Vegas/summertime pool parties at the hotels. Again, it is still dj preference. Mandalay Bay or RAIN/TAO etc… are just making sure it is a good Dj who can fill the house and keep the crowd dancing…… I’m curious now, who is keeping this vinyl vs digital debate alive, is it the club owners/our fans/the gogo dancers or is us(similar to peer pressure drink this to be cool, use vinyl and you a real dj lol)……..
[ link ]well put reply on stuarts part there, dj’ing is as much about looking back as forwards, and turntables are still being developed and selling now and these cherished pieces of kit will be resold to the newer generation as people progress, vinyl only and dvs non sync only nights will appear to prove dj’s skill with rules on syncing applied and projection screens so the crowd can see what’s going on and learn…the advantage of digital is totally on the creative part, the fact I can have a tune on within 30 seconds of thinking about it regardless of when i last thought about it or prepped into a playlist, browse new promo’s without worrying about putting them away and cueing up and use the best parts of records in new ways using hot loops and cues as well as scratching with records i’d never find on vinyl, let alone 2 copies…with my old cd collection i now have access to a new universe of tunes to fuel creativity, with no genre limits anymore…and as for producers, like any employee they have to work within the confines of their boss’s and the artists wishes, digital dj’s can be as creative or disrepectful to the original as they like using production quality effects and multi deck techniques to live remix, so where’s the comparison in skill to a guy who sits in a booth with a few more faders? Djing can be as simple as you want it to be or as complicated as you can imagine with the new digital age…..Its up to us guys to keep it at the cutting edge…..
[ link ]@Penance/Phil debate, some good points well made there. Also been having a listen to Penance’s latest soundcloud mix and being someone who enjoys variety in music and mixing I’m massively digging this, and its incredibly nicely programmed.
[ link ]For me, the term turntablism has become vague in the same way that “Live” in dance music can now mean Sub Focus or Magnetic Man on laptops with Blackpool illuminations behind them. This art lives on in a different guise as the digital wave consumes and the ability to mix across genres, BPMs, live remixing, sampling, looping, and all the rest of it, is open to many more people and not just the extremely dedicated and talented such as Craze or Kentaro. Without doubt this is a really exciting prospect for the future of raving. And with DMC allowing digital, it will more openly show the possibilities of digi-djing giving the newbies things to aspire to.
On the topic of MP3 downloading not as exciting as vinyl, definitely true, I occasionally do it, just for the buzz, chasing the dragon almost although lack of funds/practical use stops me buying many. Back to the point MP3s are plentiful and less romantic, but don’t devalue the fact that you still have to find good music to play out. Just because you download it, doesn’t mean you have to.
At the night I run, between myself and my residents we use four different formats including vinyl, serato(vinyl), CDJs and Traktor/MIDI controller and although its takes a bit longer to set up then switching on a pair 1210s and a mixer each one gives the crowd a different experience.
But if there’s one thing I’ve learnt from my baby steps into promoting/DJing world and many years of raving its that 99% of guy/girls on the dancefloor only care about having a good time to good music. Like first time producers searching for winning computer programs to make beats its not as important what you use rather how well you use it.
Some people on here are getting a bit anti-digi. Maybe posters on here who are now embracing digital were at one time “vinyl dinosaurs” and have now moved with the times.
[ link ]As for dj-ing with a controller being not very interesting to watch, I played a house party with a KontrolX1in about 3 weeks ago, there was a lad there completly mesmerised by what it could do in the same way I was when I first started clubbing @18.
The lad in question was about 20ish and the art of beatmatching held absolutly no credance for him, it was only about tune selection and the creativity in the mix. This new gen of midi has opened up styles of mixing that only the likes of orbital / chemical bros wereable to do onlive rigs and in studios when first started listening to dance music.
So it can’t be a bad thing can it?
To Amuzia: I agree entirely. the new generation really don’t care about the technical art of beat matching. Being freed from that makes playing records easier, sure, but nowadays playing records isn’t enough. those who can program and mould their sets using the new tools at hand are the ones who will shine in the future, not those who can hold two records together at the same speed. Which doesn’t mean it isn’t worth learning but it does mean it’s not the “mark of a DJ”. And do you know what? To many (crowd and DJs) it never was.
[ link ]Playing records is enough. We have been sold on this concept that we need to have effects and loops and all these other things.. and the products required..
If it isn’t, you just need to hone your skills more. Using turntables is about more than ‘manual beat matching’.
I am amused every time I hear someone say ‘now I don’t have to beatmatch, I can take my DJing to the next level, turntables were holding me back’ (or the like). Hell, used to say it myself.
Are they actually suggesting they are further along the road than DJ Godfather, Jeff Mills, Derrick May, Jeff Milligan, Q-Bert and the rest?
I am going back to turntables from all internal digital because I have realised I lost something very dear to me along the way..
Wrote an article on it over here that might interest some of you – http://www.theproof.co.nz/blog/finding-the-soul-in-sync/
[ link ]Thanks for your comments Kerry.
Nobody “sold” me on loops and effects – I bought Virtual DJ in 2005 and played with it on just a laptop, and I loved loops and effects first time I used them. I didn’t need much selling.
Loops are a no-brainer for DJing (after all, all dance music is loops), and FX have been around since long before digital.
Personally I don’t think it was a case of being held back – just it’s really nice to loop a snatch of percussion or a vocal and build on it. It’s not traditional DJing, but to turn your back on it and say “No! It must just be two record decks!” seems like an unnecessary, self-imposed limitation to me.
I am actually not a fan of beatgridding as I like to hear how two tracks interact and make my own mind up how they sit together – as expounded on in You may be interested in this article on the importance of manual beatmatching. Then again look at what Ean Golden does and it’s different from old skool DJing. does that make it any less valid? Of course not.
You obviously feel there’s something to be gained from re-imposing it on yourself though, so I wish you the best of luck. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts in another year or two when you’ve denied yourself all the goodies digital gives you for a while.
[ link ]To be fair, I am not limiting myself that much. I will continue to use Traktor with Timecode. I don’t think I have bought a record for years, and certainly, one big aspect of changing to a digital based system was the fact we just don’t have much in the way of record stores down here, one a couple of shipments from overseas get lost or warped, you soon get sick of importing them as well.
Also, one other thing, that is going to maybe give me a unique perspective on the whole matter is this – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuaYoPZfbEY&feature=related – which is what I do when I really want play with loops and snippets of music..
Will let you know how I get on. Certainly, my first session back on the decks was the most fun I have had in years!
[ link ]I whole-heartedly disagree with point no. 5, “New DJs will stop aspiring to ‘one day play on decks’” and you use the analogy that an account would not return to lesser technologies when there is an easier and more readily available way of doing his job. the progression of moving from DJ program to real vinyl clearly shows to want for a development of dj skills, as computer programs allow people new to djing to understand how tracks flow together, phrasing, keys, etc, and i feel that DJ software is allowing anyone to become a “DJ”, with no time, skill or effort involved. However, there are a few artists really innovating on DJ software, creating mushups and bootlegs on the fly. Anyway, as you progress to decks you aquire more skills as you progress, such as beatmatching and the finer points of creating a set and the skill syou learnt on the computer become second nature. It isn’t about going backwards in terms of technology and therefore ease and accessibility, is about developing a set of skills that allow to Dj in whatever environment and not only play your music, but play for the crowd. I find the whole tone of this article disconcerting and reveals a dark future for the previous ‘art’ of djing. People like you have ruined it for the people that have sacrificed to pursue their love of djing.
[ link ]“People like you have ruined it for the people that have sacrificed to pursue their love of djing.” Woah, calm down! I’m old enough to have played on decks most of my DJing life, I do know what it means to use vinyl. It’s only an opinion! I paid my dues learning to use 1210s like everyone else did, and I got so good at it professionally that after 15 years, it actually bored me. Not boasting or being inflammatory, just saying it how was for me.
You say yourself that computer programs allow people to understand how tracks flow together, phrasing, keys, etc. This is brilliant news. Musical people shouldn’t feel daunted by having to learn old technology in order to express themselves. If laptops make it easier, I am 100% for it.
Why does playing on decks make you better at playing for the crowd? Doesn’t make any sense. Also, if DJ boxes don’t have decks in any more, why would you bother learning them? More and more DJ boxes don’t nowadays, at least in Europe.
You’re quite right, “DJ software is allowing anyone to become a “DJ”, with no time, skill or effort involved” – but it isn’t allowing anyone to become a GOOD DJ. What you mean is that it is allowing anyone to play records with no gaps between then. So what?
The skills needed to DJ well (apart from, excuse me while I yawn, learning to keep two record in time with each other on a pair of discontinued 1970s hi-fi turntables) are EXACTLY the same as they ALWAYS were, whether DJing from 78s, cartridges, cassettes, reel to reel, vinyl, CDs or now digital.
[ link ]Wow, this debate is still going strong eh? good to see..
[ link ]Having read Kerrys comments and blog, i have to agree that syncing doesn’t have the same feel as manually keeping two records together for an extended time, and the third tune concept is a perfect way of explaining the joy you get when truly creating something greater than its individual parts……sync mixing and waveriding are useful tools for a dj to shave off vital seconds in mixes to improve the flow of a set, and just the fact that I don’t have to get records in and out of sleeves anymore is amazing (although it does kybosh my dream of being famous enough to have a re-sleeving assistant), but i can definitely see the loss to the audience…
Imagine going to the circus to see a great juggler using dangerous objects like axes and chainsaws, get inspired and then someone sells you a set of antigravity smart juggling balls that will always return to your hand….you could look like a professional in seconds but you wouldnt have the joy of keeping them up in the air yourself…and no-one would be that impressed with you as there is no real risk, more the technology….now imagine the circus juggler has the same smart balls, but spends months practicing with them and finds new ways to get them to interact with each other in the air using magnets and subtle gestures to create bigger more intricate loops and patterns in the air that look uber fantastic- and puts some strobing LED lights in the mix too, it suddenly becomes a performance worth watching again, possibly inspiring the next generation… And thats the way to look at it, if we put the work in with digital, and keep the live and risky improvisation part of Vinyl manipulation alive using new controller technology, and polish it up with great sounding effects and samplers(which is just as easy to get wrong and cause a trainwreck with if you dont put the work in), We as DJ’s will have done our part and can sleep soundly…….
Thanks to this site and others like it, we will at least have a chance to keep at the forefront of technological developments and raise our games before the scene gets too diluted….
Pretty much agree with you Penance… except DJing is basically about brilliant tune selection over technique – to me, anyway.
If you go and see a circus you demand skill, but unless you’re going to see a DMC scratch final do you really demand constant showmanship from a DJ? Enthusiasm and great tunes, sure, but making everything deliberately difficult for no genuine reason? Not so sure.
If you go and see a good band, would it be better if they weren’t playing their instruments comfortably, but were made to do so with one arm tied behind their backs just to make it more interesting for the audience? Or do you just want to hear your favourite band play the music you know them for?
This is what I don’t understand… as long as the music is 100% brilliant, and the DJ is as enthusiastic about what he/she is doing as the crowd are about the sounds, I don’t think anyone really cares past that.
[ link ]Sniff sniff ;( goodbye Technics.
[ link ]“basically about brilliant tune selection over technique” – then why do we need loops, effects and all this other stuff we are now being offered? Wouldn’t two humble turntables do the job perfectly?
[ link ]You can’t fit two turntables in a backpack, you can’t practise with them on a plane, you can’t knock up remixes in your hotel room, etc etc etc
[ link ]Ah.. so its about convenience then?
;P
[ link ]Turntables are musical instruments. What if a person sat at a computer to play a guitar? That would suck.
[ link ]Mind you.. Drummers were shocked when these little machines came along that could play drums for you.. look where that ended up!
[ link ]That’s a wise thing you just said. Plus, turntables are not musical instruments at all – they are turntables! They were appropriated for DJing, they weren’t invented for it.
[ link ]We transformed the turntable into a musical instrument, just the same as people turned a metal barrel into the steel drum.
Hasn’t anyone ever asked where you are ‘playing’ this weekend?
[ link ]We should definitely embrace technological advances (like the drum machine), but drums didn’t go the way of the dodo.
Neither should turntables.
[ link ]Although – a similar comparison could be playing a guitar and being a wizz on guitar hero..
[ link ]I know that this goes against most comments here and I agree that turntables will disappear but in my opinion is that they still are the best.
I have been using Serato since its conception and started using controllers with it thinking it was easier. Last week I hooked up my turntables again and realised that this really is a much better controller than anything else. For example, being able to drop the needle around the record is the fastest way of hunting through a song. The whole thing is far more natural, involving and relaxed than any other method I have found. Being able to beat match by ear is just better. Why? Well if Dj’s removed themselves from their world and put themselves in the position of the listener/spectator they would realise something pretty important. They would see that they are not looked at in the same way as they once were. The admiration from clubbers has changed. Before you could look at the Dj and the Dj would be looking back, either at the crowd or maybe even at you, feeling the mood, feeling the groove, making contact. What do clubbers see now? A techie zombie hypnotised by the screen of the laptop, Engrossed with the buttons and switches, more concerned with what the computer has than the crowd. The spectator element is lost!
Yes the new tools available are amazing but really do we need them. I think not. The music producer has worked tirelessly putting together a track and I really don’t think having someone mashing the hell out of it helps. Just let the song play! Yes its all very clever. Well done! Ask a clubber and it will become quite apparent that they just don’t care. Less is more. Perhaps we are entering into the prog rock era of Djing. Imagine if Dj’s started dusting off the Technics and using the laptop merely as a convenient way of carrying records. I think the world would be a better place!
[ link ]Well put and interesting, but I think that screengazing is the fault of the DJ, not the gear. It is possible to DJ digitally spending far less time messing with controls than it ever was manually.
[ link ]Very true. It is the fault of the DJ for getting distracted. As I said when I plugged in the turntables again life just got better. It pulls you in. You grab hold of it and just ride it. When you move that record it just feels right. It feels natural. Its more involving. The records spins, it hypnotises you, the music keeps on turning. I’m playing an instrument (and yes I do play the guitar so I know what it feels like) and I’m no longer on the outside looking in. I’m just riding it!
People love it. I think people love to see it being used. I played out the other week at a new club which was ill equipped so I decided to go exclusively internal in Serato just using midi controllers. Speaking to a friend before he raised his concerns saying something like “I don’t know much, but when you see the DJ using decks you just know that something’s happening”. This point of view shouldn’t be ignored. They are the audience, they should be valued. They should have their theatre. To me, when I you see a DJ using a controller it just looks like a toy. As DJ’s we can all look at it and understand whats going on but are clubbers being deprived?
Now don’t get me wrong I’m not rallying against technology. I think its great. I use a midi controller in conjunction with turntables for basic midi functions. I just think the trusty turntable should not be put to bed. We owe it much more than that. We would never have got to where we are now. Why aren’t people talking about loosing the CDJ instead? Is there anything that these can do that a cheap midi controller can’t? Surely they must be obsolete.
Technics have to be one of the greatest design icons of the 20th century. Lets not forget what a completely perfect piece of design they are. I will never forget the complete feeling of wonder when I first turned on a 1210 and pressed the start button to see the dots on the platter drifting past each other. The first time I pressed the LED button the see the light slowly rise from its chamber like the opening hatch of a space ship. The only thing that was missing was dry ice. It’s just magical! Geeky, honestly I don’t think so. If it is, who cares!
More and more DJ’s will drop the turntable over the years to come. To loose it will be very sad. Something akin to loosing the tiger. We all know its inevitable but we have to try and save it from the savages that are going to kill it off. Maybe there is some hope still left however. Check out Steve Bugs tech-rider:
1 x Allen & Heath XONE:92 DJ mixer – please no substitutes
2 x Technics SL 1200/1210′s
Extra set of turntable needles
2 x high quality monitor speakers (levels of which can be changed by the DJ) placed left and right of the DJ
High quality sound system
30 x 30 cm space to the right of the turntables
2 x large bottles of EVIAN
If its good enough for him it’s good enough for me (except I would make a substitution of rum in place of Evian)!
[ link ]LOL there’s no hope, trust me. The kids are mystified by vinyl.
I hear you well, but the truth is that things move on, and if technology makes things easy, it’s a very small subset of people that’ll still do it the old way, for whatever reason at all, including artistic performance.
I wrote an article in Umbrella Magazine that basically agreed with you – but I’ve hit the acceptance stage and moved on to the excitement of digital 100%.
[ link ]Just put back 1200 ‘s back to clubs , many old & New dj will play them again ….
[ link ]There is no substitute for a DJ beating a record. House, techno, disco et al. are as music is informed by this skill just as producers have long made records with the DJ in mind.
Controller technology is in its infancy. And vinyl control is by far the most tactile option still. truth. go ahead and cyber it out tho. i’m all for a more live type of experience, samplers, MPD’s, all good. Still not much out there though as tactile as turntables w/ a hi-end mixer.
It is in the hands of the clubs, to a degree. Service your decks and treat them with respect. All turntable DJs demand them in your rider. PS- i <3 technics for life, but Vestax still makes decks and they're pretty decent still.
[ link ]As an ex-vinyl DJ I hear you, but I’ve just come back from BPM – and believe me, the “kids” really aren’t interested in vinyl at all. Things have moved way past that for today’s teenagers and therefore for tomorrow’s DJs.
[ link ]am of a generation (80) where everything was much more difficult, to learn mixing music, where DJs had to show real his skill, would nowadays “dj’s” modern are able even to show some kind of using BPM ability to not miss a beat? or is the technology that demonstrates your skills? I’m getting a pair of horrendous play hard to continue the true saga of DJ you can think whatever you want, in my most humble opinion of the dISC JOCKEY truth is hard to use touch as a tool and not technical resources.
[ link ]These guys deserve all respect!
Great article. I agree with 95 % of the topics covered.Including the Deadmouse comment.A little over rated and is in fact uniformed compared to other comparable talents that use CDj’s etc.
[ link ]Great article, I havent used my 1200s since the late 90′s ( ever since I got my first CDJ’s ) but from time to i’ll bust them out along with my crates of records and go old school on people. There’s nothing like the feel of vinyl, may it RIP.
[ link ]Good article, interesting points and thoughts. However there seems to be some kind of unhealthy focus on the part of the author as well as most people who have commented thus far on dance music (house, techno…).
[ link ]Certain genres of music, break beat styles for example (and Hip Hop in particular), have a certain musical aesthetic in how they are played out and mixed live. For example when a Hip Hop DJ is beat juggling the fact that he does so manually by manipulating vinyl (time-coded or not) gives the sound a quasi artisanal quality (mixes and edits aren’t always perfectly timed or synced etc. as a man isn’t a machine). This is part of the musical aesthetic of live Hip Hop DJing. Same goes for reggae and dancehall (ever heard a dancehall DJ pull up a track and backspin it on his CDJs?) and many other genres of music played by DJs worldwide.
CDJs and such do not offer the possibility to create, reproduce or mimic this sound quality and therefore, I believe turntables and vinyl remain the only attractive tool for a lot of DJs. DJs who play exclusively dance music like house and techno might very well find a classic DJ setup obsolete and be able to be more creative with modern digital technolgy, but they do not own the market nor dictate the terms by which DJs worldwide must play.
Long live turntables and phonograph records!!
In My Opinion: people go out to hear music they love, the masses dont care what medium its provided on, digital or analogue. in my opinion a DJ (disc Jockey) is someone whom “use to” play other peoples music to provide a good time & entertain others. Anyone can stand there an pick & play songs but what sets people apart is the way in which they deliver it. whether your tricks are filters or turntablism etc. its a bout your selection of music & its these innovative way’s that we perfect (or use to, according to you) in our bedrooms practising that bring people back to your next gig. I think personally you missed the point in this naive & poorly researched or should i say “agenda drivin” article. The new digital era is not about the “death” of an old medium but more about the rise of the producer, the influence & evolution from “Disc Jockey” to the “Disk” Jockey. Time’s are a changing I agree but you cant tell me that HipHop a genre or should i say culture, innovators of turntablism, are just gonna roll over because (according to you) 1200′s are dead.
[ link ]I think you are all forgetting one thing… we use what we’re comfortable with. I pulled off my first mixes on a pair of SL-BD10′s with a Radio Shack mixer in… 1976? I’ve owned a pair of 1200′s since the mid-80′s. Only decided to go “digital” when it started getting hard to find new track on vinyl. Lamented the change… so I bought a Vestax VRX2000. I’m back with vinyl. Of course… there’s also a Numark NS-7 in my studio. I do like that controller.
My all time favorite? The Numark iDJ2. You could beat-mix 2 songs off the same iPod, using a controller (no laptop is used) the size of a dictionary. Oh, wait… for those of you who don’t know… a “dictionary” is a seriously retro “device” made of paper, that contained all the words that are used in the English language, and their meanings. The iDJ2 is roughly the same size.
If you’re playing music, and making people dance, you’re doing your job. It doesn’t matter what hardware you’re using. I’ve played non-stop, for 36 hours on a pair of 1200′s and about 6000 records, never playing the same song twice, with dancers passed out everywhere. THAT is what it’s all about.
[ link ]I have to get my ore in here. Im just a bedroom dj, dont do gigs. I got into mixing 16 yrs ago and do it for the sheer love of beatmatching/scratchin skills and the joy you get from pulling it off. I’ve used everything from soundlab 1600′s to 1210′s to cdj’s to virtual dj etc and i just can’t get enjoyment from anything but a record deck and i can’t see how anyone thats challenged their beatmatching skills would have it any other way. Sampling etc is childsplay even b4 you’ve learned to mix and i cant see the joy dj’s get from it and it’s the joy the dj gets that adds to the atmosphere and it works as a mutual relationship.
[ link ]When you’re raving etc no one says “oh that was a fat sample”
they say “fat mix” in appretiation for the beatmatching skills, song selection and timing.
There’s no way that vinyl is dead, scratch academy only fitted in st 150′s last year and i dont think they would have done that if there was a lack of interest in vinyl.
There will always be battle dj’s and they will use nothing but vinyl as the digital world can’t give that intamacy that a dj has with his vinyl, turntables and audience. This intamacy will never die thus neither will vinyl.
You will never see a world dj champion using digital so if cdj’s are the new medium then why arent they at DMC World Championships etc? They wont be ever!
Next turntable’s inline are st 150′s (most likely)!
havent we be told this before about vinyl yet i still can get up to date dance tracks on vinyl i started croming from a going to all night raves then i got my hands on a set of sound lab decks now i have a set of 1210s same that i still have a old tape deck that i use not so much now but i uses to make mixes for my friends now i just do it coz its fun puching buttons isnt a dj to me why dont we just make have pc up there doing all the mixing im sure there are lot of people like me who willing to pay to see someone to work the old vinyl
[ link ]I feel so happy that i still have the 3 technics 1200 mkii…now i still have the chance to teache my son how to respect music and dj’s and show to him where everything start from thank SAVE THE DJ…
[ link ]There have been many people that aspire to be a disc jockey, however in order to move the crowd is a inate science. That science is obtained by the virtue of the use of turntables. The midi controller does not afford the same control a TT can. Its about moving the crowd but in order to do that the dj needs to feel and control the music at his or her fingertips. One must learn to crawl walk then ultimately run. For the real dj TT WILL NEVER DIE!!! So for all the wanna bees spend that money on the latest technolgy but it wont buy you respect amungst the real DJ community.
[ link ]your assessment on all points is dead on, but you sure do come across sounding like a bitter hater of the technics turntable dawg.
[ link ]I love my Technics, still have a pair and will never let them go.
[ link ]Interesting debate…, I guess ultimately if you Dj out regularly you need the latest material, and most of that is only available in digital format…, in addition it’s much easier to carry around a load of cd’s or even a few memory sticks than tens of records. I have 3 1210 mk2′s at home.., 2 I use and one I have as a spare.., the main reason I buy vinyl is because I generally prefer the sound.., not necessarily because it’s sonically superior (tests probably prove otherwise), but because I prefer it.
I have noticed when I go out almost everyone I see uses laptops, and while its obviously very portable, among numerous other benefits the DJ very rarely looks at the audience, as their too busy looking at the monitor/screen.., this is a major no no for me…, When I go out I like to see the Dj acknowledge the crowd when they are mixing the tunes, but this is rarely the case, even in bars etc, etc.
Digital dj’n using one of the formats is defintely the way it’s going, due to music being so easily available.., while this does have it’s advantages…, back in the day when their were only vinyl dj’s.., a dj automatically got respect for playing tunes, because they had them, this is rarely the case these days.
Just like champions league football should be renamed to something like Elite league football due to qualifying criteria, so Dj’n in this day & age should be renamed to something like Musical Format Controller.
I have nothing against people using midi controllers etc, etc…, to enhance the sound of what they are already doing, however all too often when I’ve been out this has been at the expense of ruining a perfectly good original tune…
[ link ]I couldn’t disagree more. Every year there’s someone trying to get attention by announcing the death of genres and the demise of certain techniques or gears. But we are clearly moving towards diversity.
I love the feel of vinyl and I love being able to integrate it with my laptop via Traktor. The fact that we can chose, and that I can always add an APC40, a MIDI Fighter or any other gadget I want to my set up is great and means we get more freedom of expression.
[ link ]I’m one of these 1210/vinyl dinosaurs who has been out of the loop for a while and looking into back into it, so I’ve been doing a bit of research.
Sadly I’m a bit disappointed as to where it’s gone.
So correct me if I’m wrong, but kids are turning up with a laptop, iPod or memory stick and looking at a screen with no interaction with the crowd, pressing buttons to chop out bits to sample, looping the sample and putting shitloads of effects on the loop and repeating the process?
Is that right?
For me it’s all about track selection and gauging what a crowd want and i know there’s skill in using whatever software/controller/ CDJs you care to use, but why not perfect your button pressing at home, put it on a memory stick and plug it in and press play when you get to the club, so you can get onto the dance floor and really enjoy your chopping and effects.
I’m not trying to be controversial and I respect the fact that there are a million different ways to play a song/track/tune/sample to a crowd and I know that I have to come out of the prehistoric age and join the digital revolution if I want to find tunes these days, but why bother bringing a laptop or controller or whatever it is that’s going to be obsolete in 6 months and just bring a USB stick with the mix already created at home?
[ link ]Because you’ve just assumed an entire generation doesn’t share your passion, that’s why you’re wrong. Of course what you’ve described is not what good DJs are doing nowadays, and there have been ample opportunities for DJs to perform poorly throughout the decades, not just now.
[ link ]Fair point. There were plenty of painful to listen to Djs back in the day, as
I spose I’ve got to get used to the idea of getting passionate about pressing buttons.
I will study your article on how to add digital Djing to a vinyl setup, and probably treat myself to an Xone
[ link ]I only have one criticism. The accountant analogy is half backwards. A valuable accountant can do the math by hand. So when the spreadsheet crashes she/he can take care of business. What you mean to say is it’s more like an aspiring filmmaker who learns how to use the creme of digital cameras but wants to revert back to a standard def handy cam. But in the case of the digital filmmaker as well as the digital DJ they may want to return to 35 mm film or Turntables with 12” high fidelity recordings because they produced the quality that all post is trying to imitate. And if you can master exposures and super impositions on a film camera or beat match, Juggle, scratch on turntables well it’s kind of like playing the violin not the synth. Not disagreeing with why walk backwards, just saying your analogy wasn’t at par.
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