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  • #2575761
    Russell Armstrong
    Participant

    # Summary

    What follows is a specification for a system that allows digital DJs to port their digital music between file formats and computer operating systems without loss of sound quality or meta-data. Where possible the system uses formats and software that is open source, free (as in beer) and portable between Windows, Mac and Linux.

    # Background

    The source of a DJs music can be Analogue (such as vinyl or cassette) or Digital (such as CDs or digital files stored on an electronic device).

    DJ’ing using digital music files played through a variety of devices is now widely accepted and even the defacto method for Digital DJs to play music.

    There are a number of platforms (Pioneer DJ, Denon DJ, Serato, Traktor etc) with which a Digital DJ can play music and there are a number of digital music formats that are supported. Each format has it’s own advantages and disadvantages.

    As technology advances and computing power increases older digital music formats will become obsolete. Therefore digital DJs need a system where they can be sure that their music is portable to the technology of tomorrow.

    # Motivation

    I’ve stored my digital music as mp3 files for nearly as long as the format has been around (23 years if you are counting). As storage (hard disk, sd card etc) has become cheaper and larger I’ve migrated from small, low quality mp3 files (128kbps) in the early days to larger, higher quality mp3 files (320kbps) more recently.

    Mp3 is a lossy format. The sound information and quality that was ditched by the mp3 encoding software to reduce the file size can’t be retrieved (it’s a law of physics). Re-encoding mp3 files into higher quality mp3 files or more recent digital formats will degrade the music quality even further.

    I’ve been using Traktor Pro to play mp3 files managed by iTunes for a few years now. I would like to convert to a lossy file format of my choice but even though Traktor will play the format, iTunes doesn’t support it.

    The new (and shiny) digital media DJ equipment from Pioneer DJ and Denon DJ that can play without a laptop has got me thinking (and wanting). This equipment uses its own music library management software meaning that I can cut loose from iTunes.

    So gradually I am replacing my mp3 DJ music library with lossless digital music files. Planning this in a systematic way means that in 10 years time when Kenwood DJ launches the 2.0GTi decks and mixer that I can almost guarantee I can convert my library to the mp13 file format. It will also be possible to transfer digital music files between Mac, Windows and Linux.

    # Intent

    To maintain an archive of music and album art files that can be easily converted between formats without loss of quality or meta-data. The archive will include music and album art files. The music files must be in a lossless and open format so as to give the best chance of being able to convert to another format in years to come. The lossless format must be capable of storing meta-data to include:

    * track title
    * track artist
    * featured artist
    * remix
    * genre
    * b.p.m.
    * Camelot key
    * year of release
    * album art
    * proprietary DJ software meta-data:
    * beat grid
    * hot cues
    * loops
    * gain

    The album art files will be of a lossy and commonly adopted format.

    The meta-data should mirror the filename and vice-versa (with the exception of the DJ software meta-data) such that one could be recoverable from the other if it where corrupted.

    The archive is to be used by transcoding software to produce a library of digital music files in a given format that will play on the chosen DJ Software and is compatible with the chosen library management software.

    # The Archive

    This is the long term digital sound file storage format.

    ## Location

    music: /music/dj/archive/
    albumart: /music/dj/archive/albumart/

    ## File Format

    music files: flac
    album art: jpg

    ## Filename format

    %tracktitle% [feat. %featuredartist%] [(%remix%)] – %artist% – %genre% – %bpm%bpm – %camelotkey% – %yearofrelease%.%fileextension%

    where:
    * parameters are surrounded by % (percentage sign)
    * text and parameters surrounded by [] (square brackets) are optional
    * %tracktitle%: full track title with first letter of each word capitalized
    * %featuredartist%: featured artist with first letter of each word capitalized (optional parameter)
    * %remix%: name of the remix enclosed in parenthesis with first letter of each word capitalized (optional parameter)
    * %artist%: track artist excluding featured artists and remixers with first letter of each word capitalized
    * %genre%: name of the music genre with first letter of each word capitalized
    * %bpm%: beats per minute rounded to 1 decimal place
    * %camelotkey%: Camelot key in lower case and padded with 0 (if necessary) to produce a 3 character string e.g. 01a
    * %yearofrelease%: 4 digit year
    * %fileextension%: commonly accepted extension for the file format in lowercase
    * the values of each parameters must exclude the following characters ” * / : < > ? \ | + , . ; = [ ] to ensure portability between Windows, Mac and Linux filesystems

    example:
    * Shine On feat. Biti (12 Inch Remix) – Degree of Motion – House – 124.5bpm – 04a – 1998.flac

    ## Notes
    It is important that the Camelot key or Musical Key is tagged in the archive file and filename, therefore the key detection software must support the flac format. Key detection must also be done as a separate process before importing the files into the DJ software for DJ library management software.

    # The Library

    These are the music files that the DJ controller / software catalogs and plays.

    ## Location

    music: /music/dj/library

    ## File format

    music: whatever is compatible

    ## Filename format

    %tracktitle% [feat. %featuredartist%] [(%remix%)] – %artist% – %genre% – %bpm%bpm – %camelotkey% – %yearofrelease%.%fileextension%

    where:
    * parameters are surrounded by % (percentage sign)
    * text and parameters surrounded by [] (square brackets) are optional
    * %tracktitle%: full track title with first letter of each word capitalized
    * %featuredartist%: featured artist with first letter of each word capitalized (optional parameter)
    * %remix%: name of the remix enclosed in parenthesis with first letter of each word capitalized (optional parameter)
    * %artist%: track artist excluding featured artists and remixers with first letter of each word capitalized
    * %genre%: name of the music genre with first letter of each word capitalized
    * %bpm%: beats per minute rounded to 1 decimal place
    * %camelotkey%: Camelot key in lower case and padded with 0 (if necessary) to produce a 3 character string e.g. 01a
    * %yearofrelease%: 4 digit year
    * %fileextension%: commonly accepted extension for the file format in lowercase
    * the values of each parameters must exclude the following characters ” * / : < > ? \ | + , . ; = [ ] to ensure portability between Windows, Mac and Linux filesystems

    # Software

    ## Tagging
    * mp3tag – free and powerful tagging software available for Windows only but will run on Mac using wine (http://www.mp3tag.de/en/mac-osx.html). Powerful “actions” allow you to capitalise tags and pad the camelot key with a 0 if needed. Can rename a file from tags or populate tags from the filename. Supports album art. (http://www.mp3tag.de/en/index.html)
    * puddletag – free and powerful tagging software available for Linux. Functionally the same as mp3tag. (http://docs.puddletag.net/#)

    ## Encoding / Transcoding
    * dbPoweramp – Purchase for Mac and Windows. Simple and fast conversion utility that converts as many files in parallel as you have cpu cores in you system (https://www.dbpoweramp.com/)
    * flac – Free commandline tool for encoding on Windows, Mac or Linux. GUI frontends are available (https://xiph.org/flac/download.html)

    ## Key Detection
    It’s important to note that the archive files must contain harmonic key information to preserve as much meta-data through any transcoding. Therefore the key detection software built into DJ software or Library Management Software probably won’t do.

    * Mixed in Key – Purchase for Mac and Windows. Probably need no introduction. (https://mixedinkey.com/)
    * Key Finder – Free and open source software for Mac (http://www.ibrahimshaath.co.uk/keyfinder/)

    #2573861
    Paweł Eger
    Participant

    Hi
    At the beginning Sory for my English

    I searching for some Dj mediaplayer, something like Pioneer xdj 700 / 1000 but not so expensive. I found Gemini mdj 900 in one of this webstore and it look’s for ok. There any one of you had some experience with this?

    This player while be complement of my 2x technics sl1210 and A&H XONE DB2. I’m more Vinyl Dj and this mediaplayer is for tracks what i not found on Vinyl any more. Please maybe you will have another ideas for mediaplayer i have 400 euro for this purpose.

    #2568841
    Nick E
    Participant

    Hello,
    I recently bought a new controller – the Pioneer DDJ-RB which is natively mapped to Djay Pro on Mac. Overall, all functions work just fine but I can’t get any master or cue output through my controller and it’s not shown in the audio settings of Djay Pro as well. What can I do now? My previous Hercules controller worked fine. I would really, really, really appreciate help!

    • This topic was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Chuck Van Eekelen. Reason: Changed header - typo
    #2568281
    Tri Le
    Participant

    I am planning to build out a studio soon and currently I have a pioneer XDJ-RX and a pair of Yamaha HS7 Studio Monitors. They work great and are connected using XLR cables.
    However in the future I would like my HS7 studio monitors to be my permanent speakers for my computer also, for music production or just listening.
    Is there a simple way of routing my XDJ mixer through the computer or an interface and into the speakers for easy switching? Since I only have one set of monitors I want a simple way of routing them to both the computer and the XDJ. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

    #2566841
    Max Maxy
    Participant

    The DJM250 mk2 doesn’t work with Serato DJ but comes plug and play ready with included full version Rekordbox DJ. It’s a great option and with Rekordbox you get the complete system with the ability to analyse tracks, set cue points and review tracks on your laptop without connecting all the hardware. All you would need in addition to the mixer is some Pioneer Rekordbox timecode vinyl and your existing turntables, Check these reviews here:https://www.digitaldjtips.com/2017/03/pioneer-dj-announces-djm-250mk2-2-channel-mixer/ , this one http://djtechtools.com/2017/03/01/pioneer-launches-djm-250mk2-two-channel-dvs-dj-mixer/ and this one here: https://djworx.com/rekordbox-dvs-pioneer-dj-djm-250mk2/

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Max Maxy.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Max Maxy.
    #2566561
    Oyiwaa Noela
    Participant

    Hello,

    I’ve seen a lot a number of DJs using external mixers to control their sound, mostly at big events. I am wondering if I need to get one.

    I do only mobiles and my current equipment is:

    YamahaDXR15
    Cerwin Vega Sub P1800SX
    Pioneer DDJ-SB2
    Pioneer DDJ-SX2

    For small events (less than 50), I use the SB2 + DXR 15
    For larger events, I use the SX2 + DXR15 + Subs

    A couple of observations:

    — I have found that I do not have enough headroom when I am using the SB2 (which comes with only RCA outs) to connect to my DXR speakers.

    — Secondly, I am also often concerned about MCs shouting into my mics – at a recent party, the speakers were redlined a couple of times, and I had to keep controlling the volume to keep things under control.

    — Also, there is a feedback noise with the mics I use.

    — Some of the house parties I occasionally play at (once a year) have other instruments (guitar, piano) who want to use my speakers, and I am often concerned about overloading them

    I thought a mixer will help with any of these, so I went ahead and got a Soundcraft Signature 10 mixer.

    I am wondering if this is an overkill. So I am thinking of returning it an getting the Yamaha MG10 or Allen & Health 10fx, each of which are about $100 cheaper. But again, I thought maybe the $100 is worth it, if indeed, the Soundcraft has better sound quality and would serve me longer in the future, as my needs change.

    I am so on the fence here and thought I need some guidance in deciding whether to keep it or exchange for something else.

    Thanks, Oy

    #2566241
    Max Maxy
    Participant

    My tip is get the new Pioneer DJM250 MK2 2-Ch DJ Mixer w/ Rekordbox DJ & DVS. You get a great mixer with full Serato DJ & Serato DVS license, all you need is some Serato timecode vinyl to go with that and your turntables and your good to go. As you haven’t put up the specs on your laptop it’s hard to know if it will do the job but if not the purchase I suggest above should allow you a second hand Macbook Air and still stay inside your $1k budget. The DDJ-SX suggested by DJ Vintage doesn’t allow for Serato DVS expansion.

    #2566231

    In reply to: Reloop RMX-90 DVS?

    Ok. Before I can start saying something (hopefully) useful here, enlighten us with your complete (intended) setup.

    I just answered another post and I think the advice there might fit you as well. Why not go the route of getting a DVS-ready 4-channel controller, hooking up your TTs, running all of it through your software (VDJ would be your best bet here I think) and have a 4-deck, 4-channel setup. Just add speakers and your laptop and a couple of TC vinyls and off you go.

    As said in the other post, likely candidates would be:
    Pioneer DDJ-SX2 (around 950 euro with full Serato)
    Pioneer DDJ-RX (same price with full RekordBox)
    Denon MC7000 (around 850 euro with full Serato)
    Denon MCX8000 (around 1.150 euro with full Serato)
    The Reloop RMX goes for around 1.000 euro here, so all of these are in the same price range.

    If you’d want some extra buttons, you’d still need either something like the Reloop Neon or the AKAI AFX controllers to add to the RMX.

    Up to you of course, but this seems like a much more versatile setup and won’t be anymore expensive than going the RMX road.

    #2566221

    Well, technically using your current setup for DVS should work. Either Serato (relatively expensive with a minimum of the Denon DS1 sound card) or Mixvibes (much lower price, apart from the FX quality a lot alike to Serato and works with any old 4-in/4-out sound card.

    Clearly you will be shelling out money for timecode vinyls (they wear out reasonably fast, so this requires some upkeep financially. And you will want an option to trigger some things in the software, like FX, loops, cues etx. There are various options for that like the Akai AFX or Reloop Neon. You might already conclude that this is becoming a bit of a mess with all those separate units and such.

    Alternatively you could look at a DVS-compatible controller and hook your TTs directly up to those. You don’t need the sound card (built-in to the controller), you don’t need separate controllers for your software, AND you get two extra decks with jogwheels. If you decide you like jogs better you can easily leave your big bulky heavy TTs at home in the future or you can keep having a mixed setup.

    Controllers that come to mind are the Pioneer DDJ-SX, DDJ-RX and Denon MC7000 and MCX8000 (this last one can be used as standalone unit for backup purposes). They all come with either full Serato or RekordBox licenses (although you might have to buy the DVS upgrade). You could sell of your mixer and in total not have to spend too much and be set for all eventualities.

    Hope that helps some.

    My three cents as usual.

    #2565701
    Max Maxy
    Participant

    If you have a USB conection on your turntable which the new Pioneer ones do, as does Audio Technica and many others you only need to download the new Rekordbox application for free, fire it up, connect your USB from turntable to your computer play some vinyl and Rekordbox will detect the audio source and away you go. Mostly very straightforward unless you want to tweak the auto settings. All this without any hardware except computer, turntable and USB cord.

    #2565531
    Mike Reynolds
    Participant

    I have a new Pioneer DDJ-SR and I’m trying to use it to rip some vinyl. Problem is, it’s mangling the recorded sound.

    I’ve tried recording in Logic Pro X and in Serato DJ, and what happens is that the incoming signal is doubled somehow, and the resulting audio is absolutely horrible and unusable. I’ve tried every combination of volume settings, mix knobs, etc I can think of and nothing seems to affect it. It *should* be able to take the line input signal and mix it with whatever else you’ve got going in order to record, but as soon as the record button is involved in any program, mangle city.

    Dos anyone have any idea what to do here?

    Todd Oddity
    Participant

    You’ll never get a company to reveal a product prior to it’s official announcement. However if you look at their product history there is normally a pretty reliable cycle as to when things come out. In the case of Pioneer they recently added the RB as their entry Rekordbox controller, so I wouldn’t be expecting anything else in that market segment anytime soon.

    Eduardo Jorge
    Participant

    Hello everyone,

    Does anyone know if Pioneer will be competing with Numark’s larger verity of Entry Level DJ Controllers?
    especially the New Numark Platinum which boosts features such as the 100mm wide beat mixer, 4 channel and the LED display jog wheels which is reasonably priced with a Pioneer RecordBoxDJ specific controller anytime soon?

    I have contact Pioneer but have had no response.

    Concerned Retailer
    Thank you.

    #2564491
    Dj vitico BL
    Participant

    Thanks everybody for the replies so far! anyone else reads this after feel free to continue sharing your experience , im definitely impressed by the denon unit as a mixer more than pioneers, but as some of you mentioned the software for now is not good and too many people mention the same issues to be ignored but hopefully those software problems will be resolved soon as many people are anticipating, the pioneer still seems to be the more dependable unit as a standalone controller but im not rushing so I will wait and see but those two are my top choices right now as ideal standalone controllers my second choice on a lower price level would be the i think its called numark mixdeck express the one that has usb and two cd players looks kind of cool and good priced but Im sure isnt on the level of the pioneer or denon im asking about

    #2563501
    Todd Oddity
    Participant

    If your goal is standalone, and you are making your purchase in the very near future – Pioneer wins this battle as Rekordbox on the RX is more stable than the current implementation of Engine on the 8000.

    But as others have said, that is all about to get a shake up as Denon’s software ecosystem is getting an overhaul (apparently as soon as next week), and that overhaul is planned to roll over to the 8000 in the coming months.

    From a hardware perspective – Pioneer has better effects implementation on standalone, but Denon has better performance pads (8 vs 4, and proper rubber performance/drum pads vs hard click buttons).

    So, if you need something in the next few weeks, the Pioneer wins. If you can hold off a few weeks, who wins isn’t clear yet.

    Hope that helps.

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