DJ Vintage

I was really serious. Even though the course is certainly worth its money, even without it Digital DJ Tips is filled with articles (and -as important- readers comments) about how to find music, how to build and maintain a library/collection and the controller guide is one-of-a-kind and features just about any piece of gear out there.

So, by researching those articles you should be able to get most of your questions answered. I wouldn’t recommend reading the controller guide back-to-back though :-). Perhaps easier to determine what features you are looking for in a controller so you can narrow down your search.

I can safely say that if you find your way around the forum and the main site, you’ll get a pretty good glimpse of what is hot and what is not these days.

There are relatively cheap controllers these days (say 150-300 range) that will give you a good idea of what a controller laptop combination can do. You can try out several software versions (Virtual DJ, Traktor and such) for free for a limited amount of time and/or the controller you buy will come with an LE version of software (you’ll want to upgrade to the full version once you decide to go on with it, but it should be sufficient to help you come to that decision).

At that price point (a single SL1200 cost a LOT more back in the day :-)) you would not really be throwing away much money and still have the real experience. Lots of readers have indicated they started out in their bedroom with controllers like this and didn’t move on til they started playing paid gigs. Other remain in their bedroom with the controller they started with or like it as a hobby enough to upgrade to something more suitable to their (expanded) taste.

Sorry if you felt let down by my comment, hope this one makes up for it some.

Greetinx,
C.

p.s. DJ-ing is all about heart, right!

Since the Saffire 6 does midi over USB, you should be able to use the midi in/midi out ports (they are 5-port DIN type connectors by the way) to connect something to the midi in on the saffire, provided the other gear you want to hook up has DIN connectors, which in the case of the F1/X1 they don’t.

DIN midi connections allow you to daisy chain. This is one MAJOR difference to Midi over USB. Most devices will have at least midi in, midi out and more often than not midi thru. So you can go from one machine to the next to the next.

The drawback to Midi over USB is that each USB device needs it own connection to the PC and usually it’s own driver.
The number of available ports need not be a big problem, a powered USB-hub should get you and easy 3-7 extra ports without a problem.

So, keep your macbook, buy a 20 euro high quality POWERED (important, or your stuff probably won’t function properly) USB-HUB and hook the sound card to one of your MBs USB port and the rest of your stuff to the USB hub and you should be good to go.

Greetinx,
C.

It probably boils down to cost. Firewire is all but dead (try finding a laptop with a FW port, let alone a PC). At 450Mbps USB 2.0 is as fast (although argumentably not as stable) as FW400. USB is on a licensing scheme, i.e. you need to pay somebody money if you plan on developing a USB device. No doubt that fee is higher for 3.0 than it is for 2.0.

So short of a great market demand, everyone is putting maybe one or two USB 3.0 ports in their systems (quite frankly the only devices really benefitting from 3.0 at current are external hard drives and how many do you want to hook up at once?) and the rest 2.0, which is plenty for just about anything else.

I don’t expect to see any big changes in that shortly. As you correctly noticed, the new “standard” has been out for a while and has not replaced 2.0 yet.

So, if you want a new audio device there are effectively three ways to go:

• Firewire 400/800, although it is increasingly difficult to find machines that have a FW port and/or a card to stick in your machine to do the honors. Most “serious” brands are now putting out USB versions before FW versions, if at all.
• USB 2.0, which should give you enough bandwidth, provided you use one single port directly on your PC (usually there are two ports connected to a single internal hub, so picking one of two and keeping the other empty will help give you the max. bandwidth).
• There are some brands that have sound cards that you stick into your PC and that have a breakout box for all your inputs/outputs. Proprietary hardware that doesn’t use either FW or USB, but talks directly to the computers internal busses (EMU for example).

Last word, most of the more (semi)professional sound cards will have a number of inputs as they are mostly geared towards recording/home studio use. So unless you stick with a specific DJ brand you’ll get (more) inputs you won’t be using.
Greetinx,
C.

Blockrockers and the likes (Alesis calls them TransActive Mobile and there are a few OEM versions about) are decent, although the sound quality is so-so la-la.

If you are serious about this AND making money with it, you should look at this little beauty:

http://www.roland.com/products/en/BA-330

I sold one to a sing-a-song writer client of mine and the thing absolutely rocks. Not cheap @ about 680 euro, but totally professional in sound, power, build, looks and features. The best part is, it takes 8 penlite batteries I think (and you can be environmentally correct by using rechargeable batteries) so you never need to run out of steam (just carry a few 8 packs of AA batteries with you).

It’s 6 channel, so hook up couple of mics for those impromptu rap sessions. It’s even got built in reverb and 2 band eq on the master aux. It has a wide setting, so the single unit sounds like a complete PA.

Without a doubt the sweetest thing I have seen in its kind. I know there is better, but only at at least twice the price.

Just set it on a speaker stand and off you go.

Greetinx,
C.

Maybe we should close certain topics after a while. This thread was started in mid 2011 I think, last post was from mid 2012 and … la voila! … another entry early 2013 🙂

Interesting question. But your conclusion that it is possible is not quite correct.

What comes out of the back of your controller with on-board sound (i.e. the RCA, TRS or XLR outputs) is ANALOGUE audio.

The very nature of a (seperate) sound card is that it translates DIGITAL sound to ANALOGUE sound. Some sound cards will have inputs for analogue signals (for example if you want to record vocals through a mic or so), but it would convert that signal to digital, run it through some software in your PC/Mac and then convert it back to analogue again.

So, while you could go the route analogue out from controller into analogue in on the soundcard, digital through the PC and then back out as analogue through the sound card, there are a few things that would mess that up:
1) you can never improve on the output of the first DAC (Digital to Analogue Converter) by running it’s signal through a better DAC later on in the process. So the weakest link is the relevant bit here.
2) all DA or AD processing adds to latency, which we would prefer to have none of ideally.

I agree with Terry that the current quality of sound cards in controllers is such, that there is no real reason to opt for a seperate sound card. The external option means more cables, more hookup time, more points of failure. Lost of controllers have up to 32-bit processing and 24-bit/96KHz sound cards, but even the 16-bit/48KHz ones sound great.

You HAVE to take into account what you will be using your sound output for. Usually it will go into club or PA systems that are primarily loud, often mono and a tad worn on occassion. They are performing in what is often not a perfect acoustic environment while there is a crowd around that creates a rather high sound treshold. So you get to hear only the bits that are louder than the audience (i.e. lots of fine detail is lost in the crowd). By no standard does this equal regular Hifi sound quality, let alone anything more audiophile.

So, like Terry says, first pick your software and then I would make a list of the features you are looking for in a controller, just to name a few:

• what dedicated knobs do I want/need
• what kind of extra inputs/outputs are there
• what kind of jogwheels do I like
• what sort of portability/size am I looking for
• what sort of budget am I willing to free up
• What look am I going for (image is everything lol)

Then compare your wishlist to what controllers are out there with good support for your software of choice that most closely match that list (you inevitably will end up compromising on some features) and make your choice.
Good luck and greetinx,
C.
P.s. more sound quality improvement can be had be making sure that the first bit in the chain, i.e. the songs are in the correct format. Nothing less than 320Kbps full stereo MP3 should do (or equivalent/better other formats).

With shops like Thomann and Bax-Shop (here in Western Europe) setting the “lowest price available” scene and being easily accessible, it is really surprising there are still shops that are willing to pay for the real estate and staff, only to run the risk of informing the customer and him/her then running out and getting gear online.

In the early days of internet buying, it could take a few days to get your stuff (often payment had to be confirmed, stuff needed to come from a far away warehouse and had to be shipped before 3pm). But now, if I order online before 22:00 and it is a stock item I absolutely have it in my hands by 17:00 the very next day, so unless NOW really means NOW, I can even safe my butt if I forgot to get something for tomorrow nights gig (as long as I realise before 10pm lol).

I am truly afraid that for speciality gear, like DJ stuff, there will be very few actual physical stores left and even less with knowledgeable staff in the near future.

And in all honesty, Bax-Shop does do a great job. And they have a (huge) showroom, it’s just a damn long way from where I live (well, for Dutch standards anyway). If you are looking for some high-end stuff, chance is they will have it in their showroom, together with most of its competitors. You might have to drive a bit farther, but that is a small price to pay when buying expensive gear in return for being able to see it and touch it live and compare it directly to other gear.

I needed subwoofer last year to complement my Mackie HD1221s. With all the online preparation I did, I was convinced I should buy the 15″ HD1501 and perhaps later add a second one, once the budget was there. I was on the verge of just ordering one online. Since it was still a good 1.000 euro’s I decided I really wanted to hear before I bought. I drove 85 kilometers to a big DJ/Sound/Studio place where they actually had both sitting on stage and I could compare them at some serious levels. And guess what, I ended up getting the 18″ because it sounded better, louder and I really would only ever need one (saving my back and space in my small van).
I got to negotiate with the salesperson some (this one was semi-knowledgeable by the way), so I got a price that was good enough to buy it there. They delivered it to my house which was nice. I think I ended up paying maybe 25-30 euro’s more than I would have if I bought it online. I was more than happy to pay (a little) more, after all I got good advice, a chance to put the speakers to the test and the knowledge that maybe that way I contributed a little bit to keeping the place alive and available for the next time I need something.

I can really see how (especially smaller) shop owners would be hard pressed to get quality staff, train them properly AND still make a profit trying to get close to internet pricing.

In a sense we, as customers, are really creating the exact thing you mentioned. I have actually stood next to a couple in a smaller DJ shop closer to home recently, who had been informed well by the sales guy (this is a really knowledgeable dude that loves his job). When he went to check on something, I saw them check out the price online on their smartphone and the woman said: “ok, guess this is what we need. Let’s go home and order it”. And then they expect to get good advice next time they come in? More likely the place will have closed down if they only get “customers” like that.

So, unless we accept that we need to pay a bonus if we want good advice and “local” availability, or the manufacturers come up with a different pricing scheme (say, extra discount for physical shops), pretty soon it will be either internet or a long drive to get your hands on the actual gear.

Greetinx,
C.