djretroblaze@djretroblaze.com
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djretroblaze@djretroblaze.com
ParticipantChill Out, Deep, Soulful and Tech House; in addition to Detroit and Minimal Techno.
ParticipantI own two Stanton ST.150 turntables. I purchased them because, in my humble opinion, other turntable models have been available for years that are better than 1200’s, and the Stanton ST8-150 and ST.150 were highly recommended, based on several reviews.
I am extremely happy with Stanton ST.150 turntables. Actually, I might purchase a third turntable in the near future.
ParticipantI really like the mix sets on the following internet radio sites:
http://www.deepvibes.co.uk
http://www.dogglounge.com
http://www.pressureradio.comParticipantThe most exciting aspect of digital djing for me is DVS with turntables.
ParticipantI love my DDJ-T1. I cannot say enough good things about it.
Also, I have not experienced any issues with Traktor Pro 2 or Traktor Scratch Pro 2. For all editions of Traktor 2, the software download is the same. However, the license on record with NI unlocks the approved features. The DDJ-T1 works fine with no issues.
ParticipantPapa Bear, post: 18475, member: 966 wrote: An interpretation is based on the interpreter’s view 😉 and I did not intend to miscredit your post, in fact, should you feel annoyed by my, from your point, misleading quotation, I offer apologies. Do not stop posting in forums again 😀
No I didn’t overlook your mentioned sentence.
But I think that the money-issue I extracted from your post is a serious one and especially important to beginners.
Frustration is high when you start DJing, and, as you will surely agree, will even grow more when you realize that you have spent a large pile of money into gear which is state of the art or let’s say seen as being “ultimately” professional,
but doesn’t suit your style at all. Which is why controllers are better for learners. In my opinion.
And the financial argument is one which you, as you might agree, hear very often in creative areas, and often misused for … penis comparison. The focus is, which I mentioned before, that gear might, help you, but a douchebag stays a douchebag, even if he’s rollin’ with a Rolls. Aight? 😉So do I, everybody should, and, again, no intention to offend you.
Thanks for posting!Well said.
My apologizes as well. In hindsight, I could have worded my original post more clearly.
Thanks for the response!
ParticipantXhris Vile, post: 18476, member: 1855 wrote: This is comming from a total newbie mind you. But why would having more “hobbyists” be a problem? I would guess that a lot of really good musicians started learning their instruments as a hobby, formed bands as a hobby and used whatever equipment they could get their hands on. Often so-called hobbyists are doing something for fun, which may lead then to be more open to expieriment and discover new, creative and innovative areas for their hobby. Cutting them out is a negative both for amature talent, and pro DJs looking for new ways to push their craft onto new territory.
I’m a hobbyist, too.
Thanks for the feedback!
ParticipantPapa Bear, post: 18450, member: 966 wrote: Bah, so you can only be a good DJ if you spend billions and trillions of dollars?
Sorry, but that is a typical looking-down point of view. And I bet even our great idols didn’t start with a full-fledged, 5k$ setup. What about spending lots of money and recognizing the setup is bullocks?I don’t want to sound rude, but this money question drives me nuts.
You cannot be a good artist if you don’t use the most expensive paint.
You cannot be a good photographer if you don’t own a Hasselblad.
…I know people who use a 20years old analogue camera and cheapest available paint and would make the rich kids blush and run away in shame. Artistic quality can be emphasized or raised to a new level by good equipment, but you can have all the gear available, without talent you will never become better than average. Never fu%§ing ever.
Sorry, this makes me friggin’ angry.
This is no personal offense, Blaze, I just don’t like that certain argument.
Aight? 😉I think you are taking what I said out of context, if you look at everything I wrote. That is way these discussions never go anywhere. At least if you are going to get angry, interpret what I said correctly. Gosh, I now remember why I hardly ever post messages on forums.
Furthermore, I believe you overlooked where I stated, “Nevertheless, at the end of the day, rock hard, keep learning and have fun with whatever tools you have at your disposal”.
But, I what I wrote is my opinion. I stand by it, as in relation to address the OP’s question. Feel free to disagree, but please interpret it correctly and in the proper context of the OP’s question.
ParticipantXor, post: 18415, member: 1754 wrote: Except to enter the market with a controller you are still looking at a serious investment. Don’t all DJs start as a hobbyist? I’m pretty sure not many wake up one morning and decide to invest several thousand pounds/dollars in a new career.
To enter with a controller, most I would assume already have a laptop (£500), a good controller (£400 – S2), good monitors (£100), good headphones (£75). That’s a £1,100 investment for an initial hobby. It’s definitely not a low cost point.
I am a classically trained pianist, I have music training and music qualifications, yet my wife looked at me aghast when I mooted about entering the DJ world and the initial price point.
The other very important point is that someone can put their hands on, say, a Mixtrack Pro and learn the basics, learn to beatmatch manually if they so desire. What is the likelihood of someone wanting to start off being able to put their hands on vinyl, CDJ’s or DVS? Very very low is the answer.
I really cannot comprehend why these discussions and debates about technological evolution come up in every avenue, technology should be embraced, or we may as well go back to the days of black and white tv’s and CB radio!
Thanks for the response. In all honesty, I do not see an overall disagreement.
But, there is a cause and effect issue with how products are perceived based on who mainly buys them. And, who buys them tends to drive marketing initiatives. Are Steinway pianos generally considered better Schimmel pianos? Yes. Why? Because Steinway pianos are used mostly owned or used by professional or serious pianists? Are Steinway pianos actually better? Maybe, maybe not. It depends. Examples like this are endless.
In regards to the OP’s question, why are CDJs are considered better than controllers? I stated that in regards to functionality, there is not much difference. Both have strong and weak points. Then, what is it that drives the notion that CDJs are better than controllers? Perceptions, based on several factors. However, I would argue that the differences in user base is one of them. As more professionals transition to controller type DJ setups, the aforementioned perception will change over time.
Another issue is that controllers do not have a definitive club standard unit at this time, unlike turntables with SL1200s (Numark TTX and Stanton ST150 are better in my opinion, but that is another topic) and CDJs with the CDJ2000. Therefore, all controllers seem to get lumped into one category, even though there are major build quality differences within the product range of controllers. There are also major differences within turntables and CDJ products, but when comparisons are usually made DJs are associating CDJs to the club standard CDJ2000 or CDJ900 vs a controller more than likely similar to a Mixtrack Pro. If the comparison was between the CDJ350 (which has horrible jog wheels and limited features) vs a NS6 (which has very nice jog wheels and lots of features), the opinions of those DJs who believe CDJs are better than controllers might might be different.
As for me, I do not think CDJs are better than controllers nor do I think controllers are better than CDJs. It depends on which controller vs which CDJ, and the DJ’s requirements for his or her mixing style. But, looking at the issue rationally to address the OP’s question, I identified the reasons why I believe the overall assumption, in the DJing world, is that CDJs are better than controllers. This is not to say I agree or disagree with the assumption, but why it exists.
ParticipantXor, post: 18410, member: 1754 wrote: Yet the high cost of Vinyl and CDJ’s over the years has undoubtedly filtered out an immeasurable number of talented musicians. Your point is invalid – talent > all, high cost of planting your foot into what is initially a hobby simply pushes talented people away.
I do not think the point is invalid, as there are other options such as a controller. Talent has nothing to do with what you use, its how you use it. With that said, a lower cost point still attracts more less serious DJs to controllers that’s a fact. As you stated in your own words, the hobbyist. This is not to say that all controller users are hobbyist, by the way.
CDJs tend to be utilized by more serious DJs, due to the fact that it is presently standard club equipment and the investment cost is higher, which is also a fact. Not many people are going to spend the cash necessary to acquire CDJs unless they have money to blow or are dead serious about DJing.
The OP asked why are CDJs considered better than controllers. One reason has to due with the differences in overall user base. While there are good and crappy DJs in both camps (and I am on the crappy side, if you must know), due to the fact that the controller user base has a higher ratio of hobbyist and less serious DJs, it creates the perception (please note the word perception here and several times in my original post) that CDJs are better because they are used in professional clubs and by more than likely more skilled DJs.
I fail to see how this point is invalid when rationally discussing why CDJs are considered, whether rightfully or wrongfully, better than controllers.
ParticipantI rarely post messages because I am more of a numbers guy (computer scientist and mathematician). Nevertheless, here are my opinions (and they are only my opinions) regarding this topic.
In terms of overall functionality, there is not much difference. However, for professional use, I must admit that I agree with the overall statements put forth by DJ Hessler. Although I love my DDJ-T1 and will continue to use it, I am planning to purchase a CDJ, or turntable DVS, setup this week.
I believe the reasons behind the perception that CDJs are better than controllers is attributed to three factors. One hurdle I believe controllers must overcome in the greater DJ community is appearance. Most controllers, in my opinion, look unprofessional and, yes, even toy-ish, in spite of their vast features and functionality. Small is not always better, in my opinion. For instance, it is similar to a rock band using a Bose speaker system in lieu of a stack of Marshall cabs at a concert. Yes, the Bose speaker system can get the job done, but the presentation will more than likely be unimpressive. When I am behind a DJ booth, I want to look like a DJ as well.
The second hurdle that controllers face is the low cost of entry does not filter out individuals who do not take the craft of DJing seriously. Unfortunately, the aforementioned segment of the controller user base vastly outnumbers the serious DJ controllerists, based on my observations (which are in no way a scientific study). In my opinion, this negatively affects the perception of all controllerist and controllers as well. In my short time returning to DJing, I have listened to numerous DJ sets on YouTube and other video sites. Consistently, the DJs who are utilizing CDJs or have invested in a decent DJ setup have the hottest mixes, in spite of the fact that the overwhelming majority of the controllerist are utilizing autosync. So much for the extra time available to do other things besides beat matching.
Lastly, the fact that CDJs can function without a computer is a major advantage in a professional setting for obvious reasons. Computers do and will breakdown, at some point.
As you might have noticed, the issues I pointed out above have little to do with the stage performance between controllers vs CDJs. The perception of why CDJs are better than controllers, in my opinion, mostly boils down to CDJs look more impressive and professional; the user base of CDJs is typically that of more committed and skilled DJs, which can indirectly lead to the assumption that CDJs are better; and the non-reliance of a computer to operate.
Nevertheless, at the end of the day, rock hard, keep learning and have fun with whatever tools you have at your disposal.
April 1, 2012 at 4:06 pm in reply to: Where do you go to listen to online mixes by other DJs? #1003453ParticipantIn addition to the web sites already posted, I truly enjoy DeepHouseMix. It is an excellent website for the deep, soulful side of house music.
ParticipantI have always like to be different, and refused to use Technics 1200s back when almost every club DJ used them (in hindsight it was probably not a good decision). In my active years, I used an all Numark setup with two TT-1400 turntables and a mixer. Later in life, I purchased a Vestax setup with two PDX-2000 turntables and a mixer, but sold them as they were not being used much.
Fast forward to the present, I purchased a Pioneer DDJ-T1 DJ controller last week. It was a difficult decision, due to the fact that I was also considering the Denon DN-MC6000 (and I still might buy it) and Numark NS6. After checkout all three units, the DDJ-T1 was the most intuitive hardware to me.
In all honesty, I am amazed how far DJ technology has come along over the past few years. Although I will always have a place in my heart for vinyl and turntables, I do welcome the new DJ equipment options available today.
Update (4-19-12):
Since this post, I have added a turntable DVS setup to my DJing arsenal: Stanton ST.150 (x2), Denon DN-X1600 and Novation Dicer (x2). In addition, an Akai MPD32 was purchased for control of TSP2 sample decks and other miscellaneous functions. The Akai MPD32 is mapped to be used with both, the DVS and DDJ-T1, setups. -
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